Re: CSV (Crocker's draft) good! (evaluation, big suggestion)

On 5/6/2004 10:34 AM, Tony Finch sent forth electrons to convey:

> On Thu, 6 May 2004, Matthew Elvey wrote:
>  
>
> > Perhaps I'm slow, but I look at this thread and I can't tell whether
> > most folks like CSV+NBB.
> >    
> AFAICT NBB is just 
> "check addresses at SMTP time as RFC 1123 suggests".
>  
Please quote where RFC 1123 suggests this.
NBB is only interesting because it enahnces CSV in a critical way, and 
would come as part of the software that implements CSV checks, so it 
would generally be heeded.  It's different because it's more flexible. 
Providers will be much less resistant to NBB than to what's in quotes, 
above.
> If you aren't doing so already you are part of the problem.
>
>  
True. Certainly AOL gets no brownie points for their behaviour in this 
regard.
> > Tony Finch sent forth electrons to convey:
> >    
> >
> > > Matthew Elvey <matthew(_at_)elvey(_dot_)com> wrote:
> > >      
> > >
> > > > The problem with this argument is that CSV lacks the early adopter
> > > > self-interest motivation of SPF: preventing joe-jobs.
> > > >        
> > > SPF doesn't prevent joe-jobs until people start using it to reject
> > > email.
> > >      
> > If I publish a '-all' in my SPF record, isn't that going to stop
> > joe-jobs from every server implementing SPF?
> >    
> Yes, but that's approximately zero for early adopters.
>  
Is there actual data on how many of the nearly 14,000 claimed entries 
publish -all?
I checked the last 10 listed at 
http://spftools.infinitepenguins.net/earlyadopters.php
and worldonline.de, thyrsus.com, spamhaus.org, and spamassassin.org 
(30%) had -all.
----

NBB is:
Take CSV, and add a new requirement: mail that has failed (as in
there is a MARID record AND the sending IP isn't there AND there's no
?all) a 2821.FROM check MUST NOT be bounced; instead it MUST either be
refused at SMTP time, or accepted and destroyed.   In other words, DON'T
require SRS, but DO require that mail that goes via non-SRS systems not
lead to bounces to  systems that didn't originate the original message.