Re: Complaint on personal attack by Matthew Elvey
The IETF left the list operational at the request of members. So it is
still run 'under the IETF', and still under the IETF rules. The IETF and
ISOC rules apply to all IETF related activities, whether at meetings, bofs
or on IETF lists.
The list is however, not part of a working group, and thus cannot approve
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, william(at)elan.net wrote:
Without commenting on the details of your complaint may I remind you that
this is no longer IETF WG mail list and so no longer operates under IETF
rules. If you don't like something here, you should either contact mail
list administrator (in private preferably) or simply unsubscribe.
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004, Dean Anderson wrote:
First, I didn't participate in the FTC conference Mr Elvey seems to be
reporting on in his message, nor have I even made any comments on it, yet.
Why I would be attacked in a report about an FTC conference is beyond
reason. Mr. Elvey is making a purely malicious attack on me in violation
of IETF and ISOC rules.
The following message by Matthew Elvey includes an inappropriate personal
attack in violation of the following sections of the ISOC Code of Conduct:
7 Only offer or claim to offer opinions or services that lie within the
member's actual knowledge or competence.
8 In the case of financial or material conflict between personal and
professional interests, or between two professional interests, declare
this conflict to all interested parties and if appropriate in public.
9 Respect the generally accepted norms of Internet etiquette for human
communications, especially by avoiding communications that are false or
are likely to be considered as discourteous, objectionable, malicious,
unwanted, or causing unjustified loss of prestige. Avoid fraudulent or
11 Treat all users and colleagues fairly and on equal terms.
And the message violates the following sections of the IETF Guidelines for
Conduct RFC 3184:
1. IETF participants extend respect and courtesy to their colleagues
at all times.
IETF participants come from diverse origins and backgrounds and
are equipped with multiple capabilities and ideals. Regardless of
these individual differences, participants treat their colleagues
with respect as persons--especially when it is difficult to agree
with them. Seeing from another's point of view is often
revealing, even when it fails to be compelling.
English is the de facto language of the IETF, but it is not the
native language of many IETF participants. Native English
speakers attempt to speak clearly and a bit slowly and to limit
the use of slang in order to accommodate the needs of all
2. IETF participants develop and test ideas impartially, without
finding fault with the colleague proposing the idea.
We dispute ideas by using reasoned argument, rather than through
intimidation or ad hominem attack. Or, said in a somewhat more
"Reduce the heat and increase the light"
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:52:37 -0500
From: Matthew Elvey <matthew(_at_)elvey(_dot_)com>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
To: MXCOMP <ietf-mxcomp(_at_)imc(_dot_)org>
Subject: FTC stuff 0) Lies 1)Yahoo & DK. 2)GoDaddy DNS & SPF & CSV.
3)Dean & FUSSP. 4)Testing 5)EFF, Anonymity.
3)Dean & FUSSP.
Dean Anderson of av8 seems best largely ignored,
given odd evidence suggesting his views are that DNSBLs are terribly,
horribly, drastically, irretreivably bad and other ranting:
and the results of #whois 126.96.36.199 and
http://moensted.dk/spam/messages/20020716-dean+av8.com.txt ); forgive me
if I'm skeptical about his statements.
I am confident an implemented long term solution that will keep inboxes
functional and nearly spam-free is in the not-so-distant future. It's
not like a perpetual motion machine: un-inventable. Plus, Information
Theory is cool and fun. I've found it useful for pointing me in the
right direction for handling this plague.
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