At 19:25 -0800 3/9/04, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
--On 18. februar 2004 18:06 +0000 Tom Petch
<nwnetworks(_at_)dial(_dot_)pipex(_dot_)com> wrote:
I find your definition of the Internet delightfully ambiguous. I was
taught that the Internet (as opposed to an internet or the internet) was
the public network accessible through public IPv4 addresses (this predates
IPv6) ie the Internet ceased at a firewall or other such IP level gateway.
Reading your definition, I cannot tell where you stand; are firewalls and
networks behind them included in IETF mission or not?
Tom,
reviewing, I cannot tell whether I answered this one or not....
I was definitely intending to include them, since IMHO they are connected to
the internet (see "both core and edge networks", "host to host"). If you can
suggest words to make this clearer, I'd appreciate it!
Harald
Just to throw a wrench into your discussion, The Internet just happens to be a
Manifold (which literally means a bunch of pipes all connected together, such
that entering at the end of any pipe, you can traverse the manifold and get to
the open end of every other connected pipe in the manifold.
Every manifold pipe can be extended, so it is not possible to define the ends
in any rigid way. Extension can be with PPP over dial-up, or a NAT router, or
even a printer or word of mouth, or CD/DVD/TAPE/Postal-Service/etc/et al,
ad nauseum.
It might be interesting to view the Internet through the contextual lens of
spherical geometry concepts which I think fit as well as anything, contrary
to some of our historical internautical terminology. For example, in spherical
Geometry, a manifold has no edges, and has no center, while IETF folk insist
that the Internet has an edge somewhere (just one) but I have not heard any
claims that it has a surface, or that it has a center.
Apparently, what people call "the edge of the Internet" consists of an
imaginary canvas stretched over the ends of all those manifold pipes with
an imaginary elastic sheet of imaginary fabric. But this only forms an edge
if the Internet exists only in a two dimensional plane. And even then,
I have problems imagining all those spokes as making an edge.
Actually, they are referring to all those ends of all the manifold pipes,
in that when attached to an end, the attachment is said to be made at the
edge. I have big problems trying to imagine this as an edge (or a surface).
So, I have tried to stop using those terms as they get in the way of thinking
about various aspects of the Internet. Not that I really understand much
more than this about spherical geometry.
I just wanted to toss this into the mix while all y'all are trying to decide
what this thing called the Internet actually is. I notice that all y'all
have not settled on much of any agreement. Reminds me of the 8 blind wise
men trying to discover what an elephant is by each exploring a different part
with their hands. So far, I do not know anyone who claims to have touched
its edge with their hands.
So, I just want to suggest that some of you out there who do understand
spherical geometry might discover some things from looking it the net with
spherical geometry glasses. I only know that certain aspects seem to fit
better than might be expected.
For one thing, a manifold has no center, and indeed, an internet has no center.
From my management consultant background, this has been an important
realization, because, without the existence of a center, there is no logical
place to put a control center to enable central control. We like to say that
the internet is controlled from its edges, by which I expect they mean it is
controlled from its manifold pipe endpoints.
Also, I note that from any endpoint a user can, and generally does, create a
personal private network of (sometimes) collegial correspondents that is
controlled by it owner. Those networks are centrally "controlled" with
address lists in address books and routing tables, and such.
Surely, some of you will be quite upset about my observations, but I ask you to
stay cool and just ponder it all for a while to see of things don't start to
look different from this point of view, hopefully yielding some useful new
insights.
Enjoy;-)...\Stef