Responses inline as appropriate.
|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: Thomas Gal [mailto:ThomasGal(_at_)LumenVox(_dot_)com]
|> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:19 AM
|> To: dassa(_at_)dhs(_dot_)org; 'John C Klensin'; 'IETF Discussion'
|> Subject: RE: Excellent choice for summer meeting location!
|>
|> Couple of questions:
|>
|> -What kind of city with a population of 75,000 has hotel
|> accommodations for 2000 people unless it's a tourist Mecca
|> and likely expensive and overbooked?
A lot of regional centres are geared to large numbers of tourists/visitors.
As for expensive and overbooked, I find most large cities have prices two or
three times those in regional centres for accommadation and as any use of a
regional centre would be a big bonus to the host city, there is scope for
negotiation and I'm sure additional price cuts.
|> -What kind of mass transit does your typical city of that
|> size have? On that note, what kind of car rental capacity is
|> it going to have? Even though I'm from San Diego, certainly
|> being able to go places on the subway/bus like we could in
|> DC makes it a MUCH better location than a place like SD
|> where it is VERY spread out, everyone has a car, and public
|> transport is scarce relative to a lot of other places in the world.
A reasonable sized regional centre would have some public transport. Mostly
buses in Australia but a lot of regional city would be within easy walking
distance anyway. For other sites, it wouldn't take much to organise some
laid on transport to be available. Car rental may be an issue but not
impossible if advance bookings are made. I don't know enough about other
countries to comment but in Australia larger regional centres are mostly
geared to handle a large influx of people for short periods, they often host
district shows and other events where there may be an influx of several
thousand people for a week or so. Places with large tourist attractions
would also have the infrastructure to handle large numbers and they would be
more than willing to put them to good use during off seasons.
|> -If you can only just ADSL do you think a remote location
|> will have the bandwidth to host 2000 IETFers sucking up
|> bandwidth with their laptops and trying to broadcast
|> meetings out to distant locations?
In Australia there is often high bandwidth available in the regional cities
but only if you are close to the city centre where the function centres and
other facilities would be. It is when you get a few kilometres away that
broadband is a problem. Also, broadband is still being rolled out so
although available in most city centres, it hasn't reached the domestic
market as yet in a lot of regional areas.
|> -What kind of small city of such population has a large
|> corporation willing to sponsor an IETF event?
|> -How does making a big event take place in a small town help
|> attendance?
Large corporations also deal with the regional cities, PR coverage would
still be effective and possibly more positive. I'm not sure that sponsors
would take the location into too much account but may be influenced by a
lower spend. It is an outreach geasture that may attract interest and
additional participation.
|> As for a couple of your propositions:
|>
|> -People usually get paid less outside of large cities
|> because the cost of living is less so I don't see how that
|> has any bearing, other than forcing everyone, including
|> people living in other small towns to travel extra, and
|> certainly guaranteeing that more people have to travel
|> rather than less.
No, that is the perception that is often quoted and the reason given but is
not always fact. I would normally travel less than most people working in a
captial city. For instance in Sydney it may take a person an hour to travel
to work whilst in my city the majority can get to work in ten minutes. To
travel 7 kilometres in a major city can be a real hassle and take hours but
in a regional centre you may travel many kilometres in minutes.
That is not to say living and working in a major city may not be more
expensive. There are some things more expensive such as housing for
instance that really make a difference but a lot of things such as food and
entertainment may be cheaper. The employment prospectives are usually
better in a major city also.
|> -When you say "connections out in regional areas are often
|> less than optimal for most people so this has an impact on
|> online participation" I'm curious how putting a meeting
|> outside a city would do ANYTHING for that situation, other
|> than make travel more difficult and connectivity more limited.
|> Certainly the people who live out of the range of high speed
|> connectivity will not be helped by this maneuver.
|> -You say "I'm sure there would be benefits in holding
|> meetings at cities with populations ....." but don't state any
The benefit would be those with sub-standard connections would have the
opportunity to participate where otherwise they might not have the
opportunity. It would also assist with focusing on the issue of increasing
broadband uptake and opportunities. It would certainly be a good PR
exercise. I could expand this but to be honest, if the advantages can not
be seen or imagined already, then I'd most likely be wasting time and
bandwidth.
|> So, I'm not trying to be ruthless. Certainly moving out of a
|> major metropolis does reduce many headaches/problems such as:
|> -local costs: food/lodging etc.
|> -less traffic and hassles associated with big cities
|>
|> But really these are convenience issues whereas the benefits
|> of large venues address direct issues that relate to having
|> a major conference:
|> -lodging: big hotels with adequate facilities for such an
|> event, as well as a reasonable number of more inexpensive
|> lodgings for people on a budget -transport infrastructure:
|> planes/trains/busses/subway/taxi
|> -Entertainment: Yes people would like to have something to
|> do in a place they go for a conference rather than being
|> stuck with a hotel and a restaurant(reminds me of a couple
|> trips to IBM in Burlington Vermont).
|> Especially for those of us who pay for our trips to IETF
|> meetings, they end up being pseudo-vacations to be able to justify.
|> -Communications infrastructure: High bandwidth for IETF
|> participants and multicast sessions.
|> -Proximity: At our last meeting in DC there was an FTC
|> summit on spam that many folks attended, and I personally
|> attended a satellite meeting at UMD.
|> Certainly being in a small town precludes the event from
|> being near other large meetings, as well as organizations
|> such as universities and larger corporations that provide
|> local attendees, sponsorship, and other possibilities for
|> people who are attending.
|>
|> Personally I'd LOVE to see more meetings in other parts of
|> the world, as it adds a lot to a meeting, but I really don't
|> see any far-reaching benefits to moving away from major
|> city/metropolis areas, and can see a lot of reasons why it
|> would be a problem.
|>
|> Just my thoughts.......
And you raise a lot of valid points. It was not my intention to get on a
high horse and preach about what should be done. Only to put the suggestion
forward for discussion and consideration. I'm happy to see a thoughtful
response such as your own.
There are disadvantages and advantages in any location. It doesn't hurt to
hash over them now and again and see if there has been any change in the
balance.
Thank you.
Darryl (Dassa) Lynch
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