Brian - t
hanks for bring up the issue of those silly confidentiality notices. its
really funny to see them on the postings of the Bar Association's list too.
But point taken - still - there are generally EULA's that the users sign to
work in the entity and in most all instances those have some conveyance
statement, or ownership proclamation and expectation of privacy dismissal
statement, whether they are enforceable depends on which Jurisdiction one is
standing in. Unfortunately the IETF MUST work in the US, EU, Canada, South
America, Asia and EMEA and Japan/Australia - and all at once.
So how does one do that?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Rosen" <br(_at_)brianrosen(_dot_)net>
To: "'todd glassey'" <tglassey(_at_)earthlink(_dot_)net>;
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: RE: Flaw in the NOTEWell System makes NOTEWELL NOTWELL
I've actually been successful at arguing something like the opposite of
Many corporations now assert this silly little hunk of text at the end of
every message claiming the email is private and such. A typical one is:
This message and any attachments to it may contain PROPRIETARY AND
CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION exclusively for intended recipients. Please DO
NOT FORWARD OR DISTRIBUTE to anyone else. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies
of this e-mail from your system.
This is in direct violation of Note Well, which requires all documents,
including email to not contain proprietary or confidential information.
Further, since the email is sent to the IETF, which has a well established
policy of publicly posting all email sent to it, I have argued that unless
this warning is removed, it renders the admonition ineffective for the
it is wanted, since the sender obviously knows that what he is sending is
not confidential, is instantly forwarded, is immediately made public and
claim otherwise means the sender is not actually serious about defending
truly private IP. Several lawyers have agreed, and forced the corporation
to allow removal of the postscript when sending to public lists, much to
consternation of the IT folks who thought implementation of the IP notice
Since complying with IETF IP policy is a condition of participation, and
one is forced to participate, corporations can claim ownership, but cannot
I also chuckle at the "delete all copies of this email" part. Most
corporations routinely backup inboxes, making this impossible for the
non-intended recipient to comply. I always compare this to the Hollywood
stars who will not answer a call without incoming CallerId, and always
Do note that even post SOX, the notice on the email typically does not
ownership. Every company I know claims ownership of everything on their
systems, which would include, presumably, all incoming mail. So you
have the dueling claims to fight over.
From: todd glassey [mailto:tglassey(_at_)earthlink(_dot_)net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Flaw in the NOTEWell System makes NOTEWELL NOTWELL
Hi there Audit Fans - Lets look at NoteWell and figure out how it
with Corporate Governance and Compliance Policies...
let me make a couple of observations:
NOTEWELL http://www.ietf.org/NOTEWELL.html has some hidden requirements
make it broken. Let me illustrate...
1) All the major players who sponsor people in the IETF have an
iron-clad email policy which EVERYONE is aware of that says that they
the IP emanating from their Email System. This is generally not
here in the US either. This means that they WILL NOT allow any releases
against IP sent from their Email Systems or Domain. The cannot - lest
lose the control they have over the internal use of the servers which
seem fun to this group - but its something that NO EXECUTIVE is going to
2) The IETF however claims that any Email sent to it in any form
constitutes NOTEWELL and becomes its property. The problem is that it
agreements with the other email provider to make that true.
3) The IETF also tries to protect itself by requiring the Individual
represent that they have formal authorization to participate in the IETF
through the Entity's resources, except that there is the issue of #1
NO entity in its right mind would consider relaxing...
So who actually owns the IP?
Better yet - can ANY SOX constrained company with public controls in
on its internal services allow an Employee or Guest to use their
infrastructure to participate in a process that directly violates their
corporate operating guidelines?
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