From: Mohsen BANAN
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:01 PM
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:31:27 -0700, Eran Hammer-Lahav
Eran> There is no connection between the document status (standard,
Eran> experimental, etc.) to its IPR status.
You are dead wrong.
See Section 10.3.2 of RFC-2026.
If you are going to use strong language, you should at least make sure you are
not contradicting yourself.
There is no connection between the document status to its IPR status. Any of
the document types can have any IPR status. The only thing the section you
referenced says in relation to this discussion is that if a disclosure is made,
the IETF has to attempt to obtain a RAND license and either way, has to
document the result of this effort.
Note that after 13 years
RFC-2026 -- The Internet Standards Process -- Revision 3
is still the latest.
In other words, despite knowing about severe
process problems nothing has been done for 13 years.
As I said before, the real problem is that even
RFC-2026 is mostly imaginary and that IETF has
become a cult dominated by interests of
proprietary big business. As we are seeing.
My work obtaining licenses for open community specs and my role in the Open Web
Foundation is all based on the view that standards should be free and
unencumbered. There is nothing to prevent working groups from rejecting
encumbered contribution or technology by consensus. Since the IETF process is
completely open, it is easy for a committed community to make sure the right
thing is done.
In addition, while the IETF process has indeed failed to catch-up with the
time, the community around it is getting pretty sophisticated. The recent work
of the FSF (no matter how misguided) is proof that the "little guy" still has a
voice here. The entire IETF process depends on community consensus. There is no
reason to significantly alter the culture and openness of this organization for
something that can be accomplished via other means.
Big companies with deep pockets will find new avenues for their work if they
don't like the way things are going on. There are many known examples of work
leaving W3C to OASIS, etc. because some companies didn't like the terms. But
the real damage is that the more strict the policy is, and the more rigid the
process is, the less likely are people to participate. We all have jobs and
employers and in most cases they control our IP and ability to participate in
any such process.
People come to the IETF because this is where the knowledge is. This is where
the experience is for many internet technologies. The IETF does not have the
power or means to stop anyone from changing their work or proposing competing
standards. What it has is the voice of a community that still matters more than
I have a lot of criticism for the IETF IPR process, or complete lack of
meaningful protections. But I don't go around pointing fingers and make up
conspiracy theories. I just talk to people, bring small and big players to the
table, and try to be creative about it. And guess what, people are actually
listening to what we are doing in the OWF.
If you think I am full of it, just wait a year or two and let's talk again then.
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