On 1/22/2010 10:52 AM, Fred Baker wrote:
OK, based on this, I think we can bring this discussion to an
immediate close.
If I send an email
From: fred(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com <mailto:fred(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>
To: tglassey(_at_)glassey(_dot_)com
<mailto:tglassey(_at_)glassey(_dot_)com>
Reply-To: nobody(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com <mailto:nobody(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>
How about we get Chandler involved in this discussion...
Todd
(a) fred(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com <mailto:fred(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com> is demonstrably a workable
address; the mailing software verified that when I subscribed and will
remove it if it starts getting bounces.
(b) If I supply a reply-to address, that means that your MUA will
populate the "to" line with that information. You can override your
MUA and enter fred(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com <mailto:fred(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>.
(c) therefore, IETF has verified my "from address" (the ruling), and
the reply-to is in your control.
We're in compliance with the law and its interpretation.
On Jan 22, 2010, at 10:17 AM, tglassey wrote:
On 1/22/2010 9:51 AM, endre(_dot_)walls(_at_)comcast(_dot_)net wrote:
Todd,
Question - would this interpretation still count if the emails specified they
were from the ietf and gave the recipient the ability to unsubscribe? I can
think of tons of instances where a nonresponding address would need to be used.
Great question and no - the problem is that the sender has to be
physically identifiable. from my reading of the law and this ruling
it means we MUST have a functional return address for everything and
many people in the IETF use addresses like "NoDelivery(_at_)Domain(_dot_)COM" as
their RETURN TO addresses and the FROM address is equally toast. That
makes the IETF responsible for formally certifying and ensuring the
positive service of any notice. Also there has to be a legally
created point of contact available so IP Notices can be sent to the
parties. The IETF fails this miserably and bluntly its probably the
ISOC managements fault they they have operated under these failings
for so long IMHO. Now its time to do something about this and fix
these processes so that all parties are properly defined and all
points of contact properly enumerated so that things like Cease and
Desist or Patent Infringement Notices can be sent. The IETF's direct
intent to hide that contact information makes it and its management
liable as well in my opinion, something that is a real issue and that
will cause litigation at some point if the IETF doesnt get its act
together.
I'm not a lawyer, but when I read this it seemed to say that the court felt it
was a violation when you (a) concealed your identity using a private
registration and (b) used a shadow email address with no option for
self-removal. I might be wrong on that, just trying to understand how that
ruling relates to ietf practices.
It means ANY cooperative contractually controlled group process
(like the donation of IP to the IETF through NoteWell or other
submission models) needs full disclosure on the IP Owners and their
commitment to the use of that IP in the IETF. It also means that the
refusal to actually disclose the true sponsor is also a 'hiding of
contact information' as well. All parties to any contractual process
MUST be properly identified in order for the contract's provisions
to be enforceable IMHO...
Todd
Endre
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: tglassey<tglassey(_at_)glassey(_dot_)com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:26:01
To: Russ Housley -
IETF<housley(_at_)vigilsec(_dot_)com>;chair(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org<chair(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>; Fred
Baker<fred(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>; IETF
Discussion<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>;ipr-wg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org<ipr-wg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Subject: All IETF posted email addresses MUST be real.
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