Re: Processing /etc/procmailrc first?
At 07:05 PM 6/6/2002 -0700, you wrote:
At 18:39 2002-06-06 -0500, Shane Williams did say:
What led me to ask my original question was the fact that I do have a
global rc, and I was seeing situations where it wasn't coming first.
It'd help if you actually lay out the situation that doesn't seem to be
working for you then. As has been pointed out on this list many times in
the past, those of us who have latent psychic ability aren't wont to waste
them on tech support issues. If I've got to waste my psychic powerse,
high stakes blackjack and the Lottery are better uses. That, and the
The problem is Sean that you and your groupies who seem to live to insult
people that ask rudimentary questions on this list (a list presumedly
designed for just such questions) seem to be in contention at times as to
who can be the biggest asshole.
Many people subscribe to this list looking for help to basic
questions. The man pages, apparently written by eggbert-level Curlys,
Larrys, and Moes assume a good (if not excellent) understanding of procmail
prior to ever opening the man pages. They (the man pages) are confusing
and written at too high of a level for a beginner, and need to be rewritten
by someone with a better knack for teaching (or at least explaining... is
that not what man pages are for?) instead of someone trying to impress, or
without a clue as to how to explain something. I offer you procmailsc as an
example, to which you so quickly and so often refer. I won't waste my time
quoting it here - anyone can type man procmailsc. Most will not understand
it, even after careful study.
I'm sure you will take this as blasphemy, but the man pages suck. So does
that worthless excuse of an archive you so often quote.
People don't care how much you know Sean, until they know how much you
care. While you are obviously moderately gifted with procmail, you have a
long way to go in the areas of human nature, understanding, and compassion.
We are not all so blessed as you and your groupies to have such an easy
grasp of the cryptic man pages and of procmail. Perhaps instead of wasting
your time belittling people who are new to procmail, you could invest half
that time in doing a better job of fixing the crappy documentation that you
so often hold up as scripture. And while you're at it, if you are going to
shout "search the archive - this has been discussed to death", take some
time to put that archive in a presentable, searchable format instead of
that crap that it is. For as both the man pages and archive sit presently,
they suck. Whoever maintains them should be ashamed to put their name to them.
I don't know who you are Sean, so I may be criticizing one of the
Not nearly, but suffice it to say I've been here for many years and
answered a great number of questions freely with my time. Whether I'm
'leet or not should have no bearing - if you don't like my answer, you're
free to ignore my post and ask someone else to read the manpage to you.
And if you don't like answering rudimentary questions Sean, then don't. And
while you're at it, don't inflame and belittle people who are new to this
stuff. The purpose of this mailing list should be to help people with
exactly the types of questions that are asked here. If you are truly *not*
an asshole, then simply ignore questions you do not feel like answering* or
that you feel have been answered before, or that are beneath your stature
to address. Don't see what an asshole you can be.
*(rtfm is not an answer. It is an insult. And anyone who uses that as a
reply to a question posed on a supposed "help" mailing list is a lame jerk.)
On the other hand, if you get yourself off by condemning people who like
many, see the "procmail archive" for what it really is (a discombobulated
piece of shit, pardon my French) and the man pages not much above that,
then by all means, continue on as you have. You will get your jollies, new
people with real problems who cannot understand the shoddy documentation
provided with procmail in the man pages will continue to be at a loss, and
worse, insulted by your totally unprofessional responses, but you will get
to feel good about yourself, and you will be able to continue to get to
wipe your keyboard off after posting.
That said, I found both your responses condescending at best,
If first directing someone directly to the documentation, then
highlighting specific passages to them is condescending, then I'm guilty
as charged. I beg the courts mercy in sentencing me for this heinous crime.
No, don't beg. Just take the word "professional" off your resume.
Maybe you're tired of newbies asking the same questions over and over
A good newbie will accept the answer of being told which manpage to look
to, and generally being given their answer in the process. In fact, they
sometimes even say "thanks" in the process. The ones who get indignant
for being referred to the documentation are a different matter.
So you define a "good" newbie. How considerate, high, mighty, and moral of
you. You must stay up at night looking at yourself. I bet you even have a
mirror over your bed. It seems that a "good newbie" as defined by you is
one who will wipe your ass, fall over themselves thanking you for insulting
them, apologize for not having your skillset to be able to understand "man
procmail" and beg to become part of your entourage'.
And if everything I have written here sounds rude, you now know how people
feel when they come here to ask for help, God forbid, on a list allegedly
designed for help, only to meet your rude, condescending, and snide
remarks. Maybe I'll invest a half an hour a day or so to chronicle some of
the insulting garbage you spew to people coming to this procmail HELP
mailing list. After a couple weeks I should have pages and
pages......perhaps I should submit them as man pages. That would be sure to
keep people from coming to a procmail HELP list for, um, help. (That is
assuming some Sean wannabe doesn't yank me off this list for telling it
like it is.)
God forbid this list actually be used to help someone new to procmail
rather than see how much you can belittle them. One has to wonder if you
sit up at night thinking "Let's see how much of a jerk I can be to the next
new guy...I'll automatically assume he didn't read the man pages. I won't
account for the fact that he may have read them but didn't understand them,
and then I'll see how bad I can make him feel for coming here and having
the gall to ask for help...
...But I'll call myself a "Professional Software Engineer".
Professional engineer my ass. Professional asshole is more accurate.
My first reply was far from rude. It certainly isn't my fault if you take
offence at being directed to the passage in the manpage with the answer to
Most of your replies *are* rude Sean. And I know you have been told this
countless times as I have seen it myself. But you probably feel you have
been told this by clueless imbeciles. Truth be told, you have been told
this by intelligent people who simply don't understand the shit man pages
and worse yet, the procmail archive, and have so foolishly subscribed to a
list that purports to actually help people, but one that is instead
seemingly set up for your own sexual pleasure derived from demeaning as
many people as possible.
You're not going to cane me, are you? If so, I've got one little request
- can you have Helga do it? In that little black outfit.
I rest my case.
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