From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 1 06:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1191849016.3881@X+ANxIYgpbrkH25Vnl1N8g X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2007 06:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l91DA7Vf027793 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:10:12 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91CoLYF094244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:50:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l91CoLKf094243; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:50:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com (sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.71]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91CoKEK094236 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:50:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from fluffy@cisco.com) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,216,1188802800"; d="scan'208";a="403038708" Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Oct 2007 05:50:20 -0700 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l91CoKQX004131; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:50:20 -0700 Received: from [10.0.129.13] (sjc-vpn2-283.cisco.com [10.21.113.27]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l91CoEB7016181; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:50:19 GMT In-Reply-To: <46F59450.8060603@isode.com> References: <46C61458.7090903@isode.com> <46D05AC1.6090905@isode.com> <01MKLYZA8T6G00005F@mauve.mrochek.com> <01MKSZDVMDIG00005F@mauve.mrochek.com> <46F58579.70701@isode.com> <46F587A2.1030804@isode.com> <46F59450.8060603@isode.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org, Ned Freed , Lisa Dusseault , iesg@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cullen Jennings Subject: Re: Cullen's DISCUSS on draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt, take 2 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:50:08 -0400 To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1995; t=1191243020; x=1192107020; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fluffy@cisco.com; z=From:=20Cullen=20Jennings=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Cullen's=20DISCUSS=20on=20draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12 .txt,=20take=202 |Sender:=20; bh=r564k5SwflgODE13y5VxtzZs6mOpG5ca5nQOsB2sxsk=; b=VbWHTGxpw0DJapGforVGJYtsFwJuvqv5jr21AT9kuwUPxmRe4+yiPZUxo5c83saRNrns76tb VwfX8hnxboX3EdCBnBeY6KvKpUj/sjAIgfEk8cRPzGLECi7UsxrYuOsJ; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=fluffy@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean On Sep 22, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > 1). This is really no brainer. Any deployed mail system should have > a way to disable accounts. I would suggest adding the following: > > Sieve implementations MUST provide facilities to allow > administrators to disable accounts abusing scripts. > > Cullen, does this satisfy you? Much of this thread is going in really the right direction but I do need to comment on this one as I don't think I ever said anything about being able to disable accounts. Of course I agree that disabling accounts is a good idea - it never crossed my mind that there might be any implementation that did not support this. I suspect that a different things was being discussed that may have lead to this idea about disabling accounts. Lisa or Chris was explaining to me on one of the IESG calls that the ways you might deal with misuse of sieve scripts changed on if it was more of and enterprise style deployment or if it was that supported anonymous accounts such as yahoo. I think the relevant factor here was if the email account could be linked to a real human user thought I don't recall Lisa or Chris every agreeing with this and I have no idea if we are on the same page or not. I am really lost on all the proposed changes and look forward to a new version of the draft to follow all the changes. The idea of separating scripts into harmless, harmful, unsure is certainly an interesting path. It was not obvious to me how to do this but it seems like if that advice is to restrict redirects to one from harmful and unsure scripts, that would address my concerns. Given that draft-ietf-sieve-variables-08 is approved, I suspect you would want to deal with variables when describing the script analysis. PS. I'm glad to keep bouncing emails around but my offer stands to try some more interactive form of resolving this if people want to try and move faster. From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 1 06:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1191849600.49307@LRdULjVxfvaP4rfF7F/e3A X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2007 06:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l91DJqhh029043 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:19:57 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91Cq9Ic094422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:52:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l91Cq9TN094421; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:52:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91Cq8O1094412 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:52:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@oryx.com) Received: from libertango.oryx.com (libertango.oryx.com [195.30.37.9]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1A84ACBA; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:52:40 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <0ZBZVLJnUzBd81RRJi4JdA.md5@libertango.oryx.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:48:40 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: vacation implementation advice wrt. multiscript Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean The vacation document says only one vacation invocation is permitted, and any more is a run-time error. I'm wondering how to adapt that for a multiscript situation, where different scripts might invoke vacation responses without knowing of each other. Any ideas for how to handle that? Arnt From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 1 07:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1191850770.04893@LOboX6RMVGfVj0QoflmWvQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l91DdLjT031692 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:39:26 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91DLEGn097464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:21:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l91DLEe1097463; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91DLD0m097457 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:21:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:21:12 +0100 Message-ID: <4700F419.40305@isode.com> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:20:25 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Cullen Jennings CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org, Ned Freed , Lisa Dusseault , iesg@ietf.org Subject: Re: Cullen's DISCUSS on draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt, take 2 References: <46C61458.7090903@isode.com> <46D05AC1.6090905@isode.com> <01MKLYZA8T6G00005F@mauve.mrochek.com> <01MKSZDVMDIG00005F@mauve.mrochek.com> <46F58579.70701@isode.com> <46F587A2.1030804@isode.com> <46F59450.8060603@isode.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Cullen Jennings wrote: > PS. I'm glad to keep bouncing emails around but my offer stands to > try some more interactive form of resolving this if people want to > try and move faster. Arranging a phone call for so many parties involved just doesn't work. I was available for a phone call last week, but it didn't happen. I am not available for the phone call this week. And I am on holidays for 3 weeks starting from October 5th. So, we need to keep do this in email. From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 1 07:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1191851635.47624@Zud1oUJpzAdwnsLAPP6/cg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l91DrmZg000469 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:53:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91DgpC8000474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:42:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l91DgpOo000473; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:42:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91DgoYn000465 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:42:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MLZZNVLW6800C2TV@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MLZXXHSIO0005BGY@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 01 Oct 2007 06:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MLZZNUV4O2005BGY@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 06:35:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: vacation implementation advice wrt. multiscript In-reply-to: "Your message dated Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:48:40 +0200" <0ZBZVLJnUzBd81RRJi4JdA.md5@libertango.oryx.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed References: <0ZBZVLJnUzBd81RRJi4JdA.md5@libertango.oryx.com> To: Arnt Gulbrandsen DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1191246168; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=KHDBEaZV+hPg1s03X3JZJ0T8M r8hg9vebERLg7sPLYcyu2nGzykJNSUZIwJ2fwdYjrvTyEYQagJ9We5+x4VVbg== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean > The vacation document says only one vacation invocation is permitted, > and any more is a run-time error. I'm wondering how to adapt that for a > multiscript situation, where different scripts might invoke vacation > responses without knowing of each other. Any ideas for how to handle > that? It really depends on the semantics of the multiple scripts. For example, we have what we call "system" level sieves that apply to muliple users. Such scripts have no business invoking vacation so we prohibit vacation actions there and the issue doesn't arise. We actually don't have that many legitimate cases where multiple "user" level sieves end up applying to the same recipient at the same point in message processing. When it does happen we use a "one vacation per script" rule rather than a "one vacation per recipient" rule. So you can end up with multiple responses associated with the same recipient. But aside from testing I'm having a hard time thinking of an actual situation where this has happened as anything other than a configuration error. Finally, scripts that are built up from multiple subscripts count as a single script in our implementation when it comes to the number of vacation actions allowed. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 1 10:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.7 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1191861909.57902@SB8v+oLYFE6pelet6TdgoQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2007 10:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l91Gj1dK006555 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:45:09 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91GU9vL018610 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:30:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l91GU9qo018609; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:30:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns3.neustar.com (ns3.neustar.com [156.154.24.138]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91GU8PN018603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:30:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C48EB175C3; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 16:30:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IcO9i-0002kJ-6N; Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:30:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:30:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be infected Subject: {Blocked Content} I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt --NextPart Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed Warning: (not named). Warning: Please read the "mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" attachment(s) for more information. A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : Sieve Notification Mechanism: xmpp Author(s) : P. Saint-Andre, A. Melnikov Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2007-10-01 This document describes a profile of the Sieve extension for notifications, to allow notifications to be sent over the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP), also known as Jabber. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. 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At Mon Oct 1 12:45:09 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071001 (message l91Gj1dK006555). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Mon Oct 1 12:45:09 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071001 (message l91Gj1dK006555). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 1 11:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1191866164.77287@DgyRWZsPHubtgO2QcDJrAQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2007 11:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l91Htva8015478 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:56:02 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91Hftbd028221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:41:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l91Hftqf028220; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:41:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91HfsBO028212 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:41:52 +0100 Message-ID: <47013123.9050706@isode.com> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:40:51 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Ned Freed CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org, Cullen Jennings , Lisa Dusseault , iesg@ietf.org Subject: Re: Cullen's DISCUSS on draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-12.txt, take 2 References: <46C61458.7090903@isode.com> <46D05AC1.6090905@isode.com> <01MKLYZA8T6G00005F@mauve.mrochek.com> <01MKSZDVMDIG00005F@mauve.mrochek.com> <46F58579.70701@isode.com> <46F587A2.1030804@isode.com> <46F59450.8060603@isode.com> <01MLTB7YBDKU005BGY@mauve.mrochek.com> <46FB8F18.7050702@isode.com> <01MLZ6H2QHR6005BGY@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MLZ6H2QHR6005BGY@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Ned Freed wrote: > With all the back and forth on this I'm afraid I've lost track of the > current set of proposed revisions. If you could send them to me I'll see > about adding these points to them without getting into the issues Sieve > variables raises. Below: In Section 1, 2nd paragraph, replace last sentence: OLD: The base language is intentionally not Turing-complete: it provides no way to write a loop or a function and variables are not provided. NEW: The base language was not designed to be Turing-complete: it does not have a loop command or function syntax. In section 4.2, add a sentence to the end of 3rd paragraph: OLD: The envelope sender address on the outgoing message is chosen by the sieve implementation. It MAY be copied from the message being processed. NEW: The envelope sender address on the outgoing message is chosen by the sieve implementation. It MAY be copied from the message being processed. However, if the message being processed has an empty envelope sender address the outgoing message MUST also have an empty envelope sender address. In section 4.2, last paragraph: OLD: Implementations SHOULD take measures to implement loop control, ^^^^^^ possibly including adding headers to the message or counting Received headers. If an implementation detects a loop, it causes an error. NEW: Implementations MUST take measures to implement loop control, ^^^^ possibly including adding headers to the message or counting Received headers as specified in section 6.2 of [SMTP]. If an implementation ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ detects a loop, it causes an error. Add to the end of section 4.2 two new paragraphs: Implementations MUST provide means of limiting the number of redirects a Sieve script can perform. See Section 10 for more details. Implementations MAY ignore a redirect action silently due to policy reasons. For example, an implementation MAY choose not to redirect to an address that is known to be undeliverable. An ignored redirect MUST NOT cancel the implicit keep. In section 10, replace 2nd paragraph: OLD: It is equally important that implementations sanity-check the user's scripts, and not allow users to create on-demand mailbombs. For instance, an implementation that allows a user to redirect a message multiple times might also allow a user to create a mailbomb triggered by mail from a specific user. Site- or implementation-defined limits on actions are useful for this. NEW: Allowing a single script to redirect to multiple destinations can be used as a means of amplifying the number of messages in an attack. Moreover, if loop detection is not properly implemented it may be possible to set up exponentially growing message loops. According, Sieve implementations: (1) MUST implement facilities to detect and break message loops. See RFC 2821 section 6.2 for additional information on basic loop detection strategies. (2) MUST provide the means for administrators to limit the ability of users to abuse redirect. In particular, it MUST be possible to limit the number of redirects a script can perform. Additionally, if no use cases exist for using redirect to multiple destinations, this limit SHOULD be set to 1. Additional limits, such as the ability to restrict redirect to local users MAY also be implemented. (3) MUST provide facilities to log use of redirect in order to facilitate tracking down abuse. From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 1 15:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1191882204.42838@g0goS7HwLESIUElf4tPAZQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l91MNHJu003417 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 18:23:22 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91MA2Zt063714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:10:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l91MA2Ve063713; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:10:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.60.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l91M9wmv063684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:10:01 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from aegeeserv.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1IcTSf-0006aw-10; Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:09:57 +0200 Received: from AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by aegeeserv.aegee.org (8.14.1/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l91M9u0k029624 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2007 22:09:57 GMT Received: (from wwwrun@localhost) by AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (8.14.1/8.13.6/Submit) id l91M9t2a029615 for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:09:55 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de: wwwrun set sender to Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org using -f Received: from d83-181-68-57.cust.tele2.de (d83-181-68-57.cust.tele2.de [83.181.68.57]) by mail.aegee.org (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:09:55 +0200 Message-ID: <20071002000955.6x2veqixkcswwooo@mail.aegee.org> Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:09:55 +0200 From: Dilyan Palauzov To: IETF Sieve WG Subject: external lists and spam protection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.2/4443/Sun Sep 30 22:16:01 2007 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id l91MA2mu063708 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hello, In the draft-melnikov-sieve-external-lists-01 I would like very much to have two more tests: Usage: envelope [COMPARATOR] [ADDRESS-PART] [MATCH-TYPE] [:list] where ADDRESS-PART can be :hostname and :hostip, near the usual :from and :to. The :hostname and :hostip are substituted with the hostname of the last host that sent the mail, and hostip is the IP of that host. The idea is, that the script can check if the mail comes from an unwanted host and reject it. The real application is, that the script can check in an DNS blacklist, if the IP of the sending host is present there and refuse the mail in this case. I think it will be useful, once sieve scripts are executed during the smtp connection is not closed - then every user could specify which DNS blacklists does s/he want to make use of. At the same time the :hostname and :hostip have no usage without the external lists, therefore I suggest they are included here. Question: what to do if an implementation has no access to the information, or if a message is somehow not sent over smtp? Question: Does somebody have an idea, if spammers use one and the same EHLO text to send mails, regardless of the sending host? In this way envelope :helo would be useful as well. By the way, where is the changelog of draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05 ? Със здраве, Дилян From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Oct 3 11:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192040701.14787@/zhNAXnzE7JvG2q9W+JCcg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l93IOrSQ029084 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 14:24:58 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l93I8dL1007468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:08:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l93I8dqU007467; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:08:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [10.20.30.108] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l93I8btc007460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:08:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:08:33 -0700 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : Sieve Notification Mechanism: xmpp Author(s) : P. Saint-Andre, A. Melnikov Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2007-10-01 This document describes a profile of the Sieve extension for notifications, to allow notifications to be sent over the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP), also known as Jabber. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. [The following attachment must be fetched by mail. Command-click the URL below and send the resulting message to get the attachment.] [The following attachment must be fetched by ftp. Command-click the URL below to ask your ftp client to fetch it.] _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 5 10:27:05 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192208959.62012@eSLYMsqwpvIvB6rjMMS2Fw X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l95H99Nj012436 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:09:18 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95GuCCJ031715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:56:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l95GuCm8031714; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:56:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns0.neustar.com (ns0.neustar.com [156.154.16.158]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95GuAiW031705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:56:11 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirror@ietf.org) Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF83329D9; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 16:56:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IdqTC-0001gF-BZ; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:56:10 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: leiba@watson.ibm.com Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org, michael.haardt@freenet.ag From: IETF I-D Submission Tool Message-Id: Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:56:10 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-05 A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-05.txt has been successfuly submitted by Barry Leiba and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto Revision: 05 Title: Sieve Notification Mechanism: mailto Creation_date: 2007-10-05 WG ID: sieve Number_of_pages: 13 Abstract: This document describes a profile of the Sieve extension for notifications, to allow notifications to be sent by electronic mail. The IETF Secretariat. From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 5 10:27:05 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192208959.6183@z26oAIbHBJWEtOm06gWvcw X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l95H99Hb012444 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:09:15 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95H03rY032114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:00:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l95H03mN032113; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:00:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns0.neustar.com (ns0.neustar.com [156.154.16.158]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95H02vO032104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:00:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F99329DC; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:00:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IdqWw-00072Y-0o; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:00:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:00:02 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be infected Subject: {Blocked Content} I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-05.txt --NextPart Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed Warning: (not named). Warning: Please read the "mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" attachment(s) for more information. A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : Sieve Notification Mechanism: mailto Author(s) : B. Leiba, M. Haardt Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-05.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2007-10-05 This document describes a profile of the Sieve extension for notifications, to allow notifications to be sent by electronic mail. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Fri Oct 5 13:09:19 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071005 (message l95H99Hb012444). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Fri Oct 5 13:09:19 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071005 (message l95H99Hb012444). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 5 10:27:05 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192209822.69514@aj6T19M9vZNieobSHUPW5Q X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l95HNapT014717 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:23:41 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95HF3xZ033302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l95HF3hs033301; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns4.neustar.com (ns4.neustar.com [156.154.24.139]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95HF29K033295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2286E2AC65; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IdqlR-0007MP-Sv; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:15:01 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be infected Subject: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt --NextPart Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed Warning: (not named). Warning: Please read the "mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" attachment(s) for more information. A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : Sieve Email Filtering: Reject Extension Author(s) : M. Elvey, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Pages : 0 Date : 2007-10-5 This memo updates the definition of the Sieve mail filtering language (RFC draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-XX.txt) "reject" extension, originally defined in RFC 3028. A "Joe-job" is a spam run forged to appear as though it came from an innocent party, who is then generally flooded by automated bounces, Message Disposition Notifications (MDNs), and personal messages with complaints. The original Sieve "reject" action defined in RFC 3028 required use of MDNs for rejecting messages, thus contributing to the flood of Joe-job spam to victims of Joe-jobs. This memo updates the definition of the "reject" action to allow messages to be refused during the SMTP transaction, and defines the "ereject" action to require messages to be refused during the SMTP transaction. The "ereject" action is intended to replace the "reject" action wherever possible. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Fri Oct 5 13:23:42 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071005 (message l95HNapT014717). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Fri Oct 5 13:23:42 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071005 (message l95HNapT014717). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 5 11:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192211972.967@p7pvkIKDJnoa7uFpOiObqg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l95HxOic019894 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:59:30 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95Ho3Os036022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:50:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l95Ho3dC036020; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:50:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns0.neustar.com (ns0.neustar.com [156.154.16.158]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95Ho2Tk036014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:50:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08A0329D9; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:50:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IdrJJ-0007j3-EW; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:50:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:50:01 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be infected Subject: {Blocked Content} I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-notify-09.txt --NextPart Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed Warning: (not named). Warning: Please read the "mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" attachment(s) for more information. A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : SIEVE Email Filtering: Notifications Author(s) : A. Melnikov, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-notify-09.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2007-10-05 Users go to great lengths to be notified as quickly as possible that they have received new mail. Most of these methods involve polling to check for new messages periodically. A push method handled by the final delivery agent gives users quicker notifications and saves server resources. This document does not specify the notification method but it is expected that using existing instant messaging infrastructure such as XMPP, or SMS messages will be popular. This draft describes an extension to the Sieve mail filtering language that allows users to give specific rules for how and when notifications should be sent. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-09.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sieve-notify-09.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-09.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Fri Oct 5 13:59:32 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071005 (message l95HxOic019894). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Fri Oct 5 13:59:32 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071005 (message l95HxOic019894). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 5 11:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192212534.46559@ttbu3HY5/ied0AE12shTUw X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l95I8mIT020906 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:08:53 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95HnxGo035999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:49:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l95Hnxci035998; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:49:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns4.neustar.com (ns4.neustar.com [156.154.24.139]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l95HnwNO035990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 10:49:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from mirror@ietf.org) Received: from ietf.org (stiedprweb1.va.neustar.com [10.91.34.42]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079F12AC65; Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:49:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mirror by ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IdrJF-0001wX-P0; Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:49:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: leiba@watson.ibm.com Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org, Alexey.Melnikov@isode.com, werewolf@us.ibm.com, timmartin@alumni.cmu.edu From: IETF I-D Submission Tool Message-Id: Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:49:57 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sieve-notify-09 A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sieve-notify-09.txt has been successfuly submitted by Barry Leiba and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-ietf-sieve-notify Revision: 09 Title: SIEVE Email Filtering: Notifications Creation_date: 2007-10-05 WG ID: sieve Number_of_pages: 17 Abstract: Users go to great lengths to be notified as quickly as possible that they have received new mail. Most of these methods involve polling to check for new messages periodically. A push method handled by the final delivery agent gives users quicker notifications and saves server resources. This document does not specify the notification method but it is expected that using existing instant messaging infrastructure such as XMPP, or SMS messages will be popular. This draft describes an extension to the Sieve mail filtering language that allows users to give specific rules for how and when notifications should be sent. The IETF Secretariat. From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 6 06:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,MISSING_HEADERS autolearn=no version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192279345.40065@q1M+K4fhVSKTRxAIpMnEQg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Sat, 06 Oct 2007 06:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l96CgJcA018910 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 08:42:25 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96CElR8025458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 6 Oct 2007 05:14:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l96CElaO025457; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 05:14:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.62.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96CEjhX025446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 05:14:46 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from smtp.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1Ie8YN-0004qW-OM; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:14:43 +0200 X-Mail-Sent-By-AEGEE.org-Account: didopalauzov Received: from [192.168.1.1] (d213-101-239-11.cust.tele2.de [213.101.239.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.aegee.org (8.14.1/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l96CEfP9026671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:14:45 GMT Message-ID: <47077C32.2040307@aegee.org> Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:14:42 +0200 From: Dilyan Palauzov User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.91.2/4482/Fri Oct 5 22:43:49 2007 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hello I am reading currently draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05 and want to say some things: If action reject shall be allowed only once and if it shall not permit the execution of vacation, why doesn't reject imply action "stop"? More important, I do not get why a user needs both ereject and reject . If she wants to refuse delivery, she needs one action and how is it implemented (MDN, smtp 5xx) on the current protocol, does not matter for her. My suggestion is to unify both reject and ereject in reject, doing 5xx-reject when possible, otherwise something else. Near LMTP and SMTP with one recipient, the 5xx reject can be applied in SMTP with PRDR enabled (http://www.ehsco.com/misc/I-Ds/draft-hall-prdr-00.txt). If the environment is SMTP without PRDR, there are still some possibilities: - accept the mail for the first recipient and all other recipients that have the same script as the first one. Do temporary reject for all other recipients. In this way the DATA-dot-response will be the answer for all accepted recipients. In fact, the implementation can deliver promptly the mails, save the performed action per recipient and Message-ID and the next time it is contacted to receive the mails, that were temporary rejected the first time, the implementation reports to the connecting MTA if it is going to accept the first-recipient, but does not deliver again the mail. The only drawback is, that after 24 hours or 4 days or whatever the sender might be notified that her mail was not delivered yet. - accept all mail and generate bounces for the undelivered one If an implementation supports both options, then it is up to the site administrator to choose which of both policy will be applied - in some cases bounces might be totally unacceptable and so on. This adjustment is necessary side-wide and I do not think it needs to be specified in the sieve-script. Unicode issues: if there will be bounces, then Unicode is not a problem. If there will be 5xx reject, then ... either the implementation transliterates the text to ASCII, or the user are given two options to the reject action, the second optional one giving the reason in ascii text and applied during smtp negotiations. All in all, I think the users need one action to refuse a mail, how the refusal works is up to the implementation. Greetings, Dilian Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Sieve Email Filtering: Reject Extension > Author(s) : M. Elvey, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt > Pages : 0 > Date : 2007-10-5 > > This memo updates the definition of the Sieve mail filtering language > (RFC draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-XX.txt) "reject" extension, originally > defined in RFC 3028. > > A "Joe-job" is a spam run forged to appear as though it came from an > innocent party, who is then generally flooded by automated bounces, > Message Disposition Notifications (MDNs), and personal messages with > complaints. The original Sieve "reject" action defined in RFC 3028 > required use of MDNs for rejecting messages, thus contributing to the > flood of Joe-job spam to victims of Joe-jobs. > > This memo updates the definition of the "reject" action to allow > messages to be refused during the SMTP transaction, and defines the > "ereject" action to require messages to be refused during the SMTP > transaction. > > The "ereject" action is intended to replace the "reject" action > wherever possible. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 6 13:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_40, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06 autolearn=no version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192304129.21292@Oonbx2J/DCl7GqDl834ELA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l96JZNxk004732 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 15:35:28 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96JLWxO060290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:21:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l96JLWGr060289; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:21:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96JLUil060279 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:21:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MM7AYGUJY800BTQ4@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MM71LQQY8000BDC1@mauve.mrochek.com>; Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MM7AYFUPMK00BDC1@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:55:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:14:42 +0200" <47077C32.2040307@aegee.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed References: <47077C32.2040307@aegee.org> To: Dilyan Palauzov DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1191698488; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=Mb0RDcVvAfMS8SFq0JTOtr0nQ yytm4VaNEJ5dRhuQv6VzmrhoxfOFUV0L5oIgG6fr8FfYH/4KuZWS27v/a9fsQ== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean > I am reading currently draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05 and want to say > some things: > If action reject shall be allowed only once and if it shall not > permit the execution of vacation, why doesn't reject imply action "stop"? Because the future is unpredictable. Even assuming there's no other action that's compatible with reject currently (I haven't done any sort of check on this) that does not mean nothing like that will ever be defined. For that matter, while the current notify draft doesn't appear to say whether or not it is compatible with reject, I think a case can be made for allowing it. More generally, it fairly important that we keep the number of "control" actions, that is, actions that affect the control flow of scripts, to a minimum in order to facilitate script analysis. > More important, I do not get why a user needs both ereject and > reject . If she wants to refuse delivery, she needs one action and how > is it implemented (MDN, smtp 5xx) on the current protocol, does not > matter for her. My suggestion is to unify both reject and ereject in > reject, doing 5xx-reject when possible, otherwise something else. We've been back and forth over this a lot of times and I do not propose to repeat those arguments. I suggest you read the list archives to see how/why we've gotten where we are on this. I will also add that I personally have no real preferences about any of this. I simply want a specification I can implement without a lot of trouble. The current reject/ereject specification looks fairly reasonable to me - my one quibble is where it says that when UTF-8 Is downgraded to US-ASCII in order to respond at the SMTP level the user SHOULD be informed. Short of sending the user a message sauing that this has been done I have no idea how to do that and I really don't think users will appreciate getting such messages notifying them of how rejected mail is handled. > Near > LMTP and SMTP with one recipient, the 5xx reject can be applied in SMTP > with PRDR enabled > (http://www.ehsco.com/misc/I-Ds/draft-hall-prdr-00.txt). A draft which was fairly controversial when it came out, hasn't been discussed in months AFAIK and is now expired. The odds of this making to an RFC don't look all that good. And adding support for this to an MTA isn't exactly trivial, especially on the server side (lack of per-recipient error tracking and associated code paths). So I'm not optimistic that even if it were standardized that we'd see significant deployment at all soon. > If the > environment is SMTP without PRDR, there are still some possibilities: > - accept the mail for the first recipient and all other recipients > that have the same script as the first one. Do temporary reject for all > other recipients. Which can lead to significant delays in message transfer. > In this way the DATA-dot-response will be the answer > for all accepted recipients. In fact, the implementation can deliver > promptly the mails, save the performed action per recipient and > Message-ID and the next time it is contacted to receive the mails, that > were temporary rejected the first time, the implementation reports to > the connecting MTA if it is going to accept the first-recipient, but > does not deliver again the mail. The only drawback is, that after 24 > hours or 4 days or whatever the sender might be notified that her mail > was not delivered yet. Couple of big problems here. First, since the message-id isn't available before the message data is transferred you cannot tell which message you're dealing with until the message body is tranferred, so the second time you still have to do the "temporary reject all but one" trick. Then you can check and if you've already figured out the result for this recipient you can then say yes or no. But this means the message ends up getting transferred once per recipient. You may have delivered the message to all recipients in a timely way, but you have lied and said you haven't. This can easily devolve into a situation where the originatore gets told there's a problem delivering even though the message has been delivered. And that's really not acceptable. Additionally, using the message-id as a unique identifier is nowhere near good enough. It is unfortunately the case that different messages routinely end up having the same message-id. They don't usually differ by much, but they do differ and it is important that such duplicates not be eliminated. So in order for this approach to work you have to compute a hash over the entire message. And that's actually surprisingly expensive - this is something we have a lot of experienc with because we do it sometimes for other reasons. Now, you could try using ENVID instead of message-id if the DSN extension is being used. This reduces the number of times the message is transferred to at most two. But once again you're relying on a single identifier - a much more reliably unique one but still possibly associated with different messages - and DSN support is unfortunately not really ubiquitous enough. > - accept all mail and generate bounces for the undelivered one > If an implementation supports both options, then it is up to the > site administrator to choose which of both policy will be applied - in > some cases bounces might be totally unacceptable and so on. This > adjustment is necessary side-wide and I do not think it needs to be > specified in the sieve-script. This is now doing nothing but rehashing past discussions. I suggest you read the archives. > Unicode issues: if there will be bounces, then Unicode is not a > problem. If there will be 5xx reject, then ... either the implementation > transliterates the text to ASCII, or the user are given two options to > the reject action, the second optional one giving the reason in ascii > text and applied during smtp negotiations. > All in all, I think the users need one action to refuse a mail, how > the refusal works is up to the implementation. Been there, didn't reach consensus on that. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 6 14:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50 autolearn=no version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192307957.11322@3PWT/hcPJ+uj2nnWMZZUBA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l96Kd9ax017528 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 16:39:14 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96KOhiZ064817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:24:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l96KOhkA064816; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:24:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96KOg3Q064803 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:24:42 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.1.146] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92FF3D19; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt From: Aaron Stone To: Dilyan Palauzov Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <47077C32.2040307@aegee.org> References: <47077C32.2040307@aegee.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:24:40 -0700 Message-Id: <1191702280.1764.24.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Allow me to begin my reply by saying that I've taken on editorship of this document with the goal of publishing an RFC. The details are not particularly important to me; for every option there are good arguments. I'm focusing on making sure that the document itself presents a coherent set of actions and that it is reasonably well written. That said... On Sat, 2007-10-06 at 14:14 +0200, Dilyan Palauzov wrote: > Hello > > I am reading currently draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05 and want to say > some things: > If action reject shall be allowed only once and if it shall not > permit the execution of vacation, why doesn't reject imply action "stop"? Section 3.3 says, It is NOT RECOMMENDED that implementations permit the use of "reject" with actions that cause mail delivery, such as "keep", "fileinto", "redirect". There are some circumstances where you might want to write a script like this: if whatever { ereject "No thanks. But I'm keeping this anyways..."; fileinto "No Thanks"; } IMHO, it would violate the principle of least surprise if the fileinto failed to execute because ereject had an implicit stop. > More important, I do not get why a user needs both ereject and > reject . If she wants to refuse delivery, she needs one action and how > is it implemented (MDN, smtp 5xx) on the current protocol, does not > matter for her. My suggestion is to unify both reject and ereject in > reject, doing 5xx-reject when possible, otherwise something else. Near > LMTP and SMTP with one recipient, the 5xx reject can be applied in SMTP > with PRDR enabled > (http://www.ehsco.com/misc/I-Ds/draft-hall-prdr-00.txt). If the > environment is SMTP without PRDR, there are still some possibilities: > - accept the mail for the first recipient and all other recipients > that have the same script as the first one. Do temporary reject for all > other recipients. In this way the DATA-dot-response will be the answer > for all accepted recipients. In fact, the implementation can deliver > promptly the mails, save the performed action per recipient and > Message-ID and the next time it is contacted to receive the mails, that > were temporary rejected the first time, the implementation reports to > the connecting MTA if it is going to accept the first-recipient, but > does not deliver again the mail. The only drawback is, that after 24 > hours or 4 days or whatever the sender might be notified that her mail > was not delivered yet. > - accept all mail and generate bounces for the undelivered one > > If an implementation supports both options, then it is up to the > site administrator to choose which of both policy will be applied - in > some cases bounces might be totally unacceptable and so on. This > adjustment is necessary side-wide and I do not think it needs to be > specified in the sieve-script. This has gone back and forth several times. Have you looked back on the mailing list archives? There are good arguments both ways... With respect to PRDR, I suspect that our references to the ability of LMTP to reject messages on a per-recipient basis could be applied to this new SMTP extensions without a specific reference in this document. > Unicode issues: if there will be bounces, then Unicode is not a > problem. If there will be 5xx reject, then ... either the implementation > transliterates the text to ASCII, or the user are given two options to > the reject action, the second optional one giving the reason in ascii > text and applied during smtp negotiations. There were a number of people who disagreed strongly with changing the rejection text without some authorization from the user. > All in all, I think the users need one action to refuse a mail, how > the refusal works is up to the implementation. > > Greetings, > Dilian From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Sat Oct 6 14:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_05 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192308118.35198@sNiEKjq2FGt4NkfZwC+gEA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l96KfoNa017865 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 16:41:56 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96KWHhK065226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:32:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l96KWHmR065225; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:32:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l96KWGlx065219 for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:32:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.1.146] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912823D19; Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt From: Aaron Stone To: Ned Freed Cc: Dilyan Palauzov , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org In-Reply-To: <01MM7AYFUPMK00BDC1@mauve.mrochek.com> References: <47077C32.2040307@aegee.org> <01MM7AYFUPMK00BDC1@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:32:25 -0700 Message-Id: <1191702745.1764.32.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.10.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean On Sat, 2007-10-06 at 07:55 -0700, Ned Freed wrote: [snip all but this item] > I will also add that I personally have no real preferences about any of this. I > simply want a specification I can implement without a lot of trouble. The > current reject/ereject specification looks fairly reasonable to me - my one > quibble is where it says that when UTF-8 Is downgraded to US-ASCII in order to > respond at the SMTP level the user SHOULD be informed. Short of sending the > user a message sauing that this has been done I have no idea how to do that and > I really don't think users will appreciate getting such messages notifying them > of how rejected mail is handled. Agreed. For a while I had a very nice error report that read: Your script encountered a message that could not be parsed, and delivered the message to your Inbox. This was a _very stupid idea_ -- it basically amplified spam. I suspect the same scenario here. I'll drop this text unless someone really wants to keep it. Aaron From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Sun Oct 7 12:27:04 2007 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192387899.55207@KULgi/02BMnzHFxic11ioA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Sun, 07 Oct 2007 12:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l97IpXRV019775 for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2007 14:51:38 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l97IVIeE058774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l97IVIme058773; Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:31:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mulberrymail.com (piper.mulberrymail.com [151.201.22.177]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l97IVGba058766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:31:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cyrus@daboo.name) Received: from [10.0.1.3] (piper.mulberrymail.com [151.201.22.177] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mulberrymail.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l97IV0lg000977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 7 Oct 2007 14:31:05 -0400 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 14:31:00 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Aaron Stone , Dilyan Palauzov cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Message-ID: <9CA07EC91E681B57BFAFCB4A@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: <1191702280.1764.24.camel@localhost> References: <47077C32.2040307@aegee.org> <1191702280.1764.24.camel@localhost> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=disabled version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on piper.mulberrymail.com Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hi, Co-chair hat on: --On October 6, 2007 1:24:40 PM -0700 Aaron Stone wrote: > Allow me to begin my reply by saying that I've taken on editorship of > this document with the goal of publishing an RFC. The details are not > particularly important to me; for every option there are good arguments. > I'm focusing on making sure that the document itself presents a coherent > set of actions and that it is reasonably well written. Just to re-iterate - the draft Aaron has produced represents working group consensus from the last time this document was thoroughly discussed. Certainly the issue of one vs two actions has been discussed to death and at this point I consider that issue closed - we are going with two actions. The mailing list and IETF meeting minutes contain the full record of all these discussions. That said, the chairs consider finishing this document a priority - so I would encourage everyone to please review it. If there are minor issues we will ask Aaron to produce an updated version and at that point we will do a working group last call on it. We would like to have this document to the IESG well before the December meeting. -- Cyrus Daboo From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 8 10:27:03 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192466195.16567@rnOXP3VJiJVS8+dhO9PNLw X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l98GaSUb007957 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:36:33 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l98GF3wH059657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l98GF3AG059656; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:15:03 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ns0.neustar.com (ns0.neustar.com [156.154.16.158]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l98GF16a059650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:15:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ietf@ietf.org) Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6AED328EF; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:15:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IevG1-0001hy-IW; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:15:01 -0400 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be infected Subject: {Blocked Content} I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-13.txt --NextPart Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed Warning: (not named). Warning: Please read the "mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" attachment(s) for more information. A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : Sieve: An Email Filtering Language Author(s) : T. Showalter, P. Guenther Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-13.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2007-10-8 This document describes a language for filtering email messages at time of final delivery. It is designed to be implementable on either a mail client or mail server. It is meant to be extensible, simple, and independent of access protocol, mail architecture, and operating system. It is suitable for running on a mail server where users may not be allowed to execute arbitrary programs, such as on black box Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP) servers, as the base language has no variables, loops, or ability to shell out to external programs. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-13.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-13.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-3028bis-13.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Mon Oct 8 12:36:35 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071008 (message l98GaSUb007957). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Mon Oct 8 12:36:35 2007 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20071008 (message l98GaSUb007957). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Oct 8 12:27:08 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192474573.22797@WioUwr7T7NRhKzLaa/mYxw X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:27:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l98Iu4WS029535 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:56:10 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l98IXiJ9070018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:33:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l98IXiXD070017; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:33:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l98IXhra070010 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:33:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MMA1UXJBCW00B7L2@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MM9YAF7MA800BDC1@mauve.mrochek.com>; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Cc: IETF Sieve WG Message-id: <01MMA1UWH57E00BDC1@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:51:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: external lists and spam protection In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:09:55 +0200" <20071002000955.6x2veqixkcswwooo@mail.aegee.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; DelSp=Yes; format=flowed References: <20071002000955.6x2veqixkcswwooo@mail.aegee.org> To: Dilyan Palauzov DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1191868421; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=AB9i9ns8nw63bNBPMzTXB6Xwz umkbn3OaAQaPx49/xcAt/PUyOit16C7iscowUdx55deP/spixk1rEDmSZ5jyQ== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean I'm glad you brought this up - I've been meaning to comment on this draft. > In the draft-melnikov-sieve-external-lists-01 I would like very > much to have two more tests: > Usage: envelope [COMPARATOR] [ADDRESS-PART] [MATCH-TYPE] [:list] > > > where ADDRESS-PART can be :hostname and :hostip, near the usual :from > and :to. The :hostname and :hostip are substituted with the hostname > of the last host that sent the mail, and hostip is the IP of that > host. The idea is, that the script can check if the mail comes from an > unwanted host and reject it. The real application is, that the script > can check in an DNS blacklist, if the IP of the sending host is > present there and refuse the mail in this case. I think it will be > useful, once sieve scripts are executed during the smtp connection is > not closed - then every user could specify which DNS blacklists does > s/he want to make use of. I see what you're after here but to my mind this is a separate extension. Also, it doesn't really fit under envelope - getting at the remote host and IP seems to be a much better fit for the environment extension. Please see draft-freed-sieve-environment-01.txt when it comes out (should be any time now) and take a look at the remote-host and remote-ip environment items. > At the same time the :hostname and :hostip have no usage without > the external lists, therefore I suggest they are included here. I disagree. While they may be most useful when used with an external list, it's not at all unreasonable to have a script that checks this information for other reasons. > Question: what to do if an implementation has no access to the > information, or if a message is somehow not sent over smtp? The environment extension deals with this issue by having the test fail unconditionally. This makes it easy to test to see if an item is supported: if environment :matches "foo" "*" { code for when item foo is available } else { code for when it isn't } Note that unlike comparators there is presently no way to specify a specific environment item in a require clause or ihave test. I'm disinclined to provide one since whether or not some enviroment items are applicable depends more on, well, the current enviroment the script is executing in and not on the Sieve implementation. > Question: Does somebody have an idea, if spammers use one and the > same EHLO text to send mails, regardless of the sending host? In this > way envelope :helo would be useful as well. The HELO/EHLO parameter value is pretty much the definition of a boundary case. Since it is presented before the transaction starts you could say it really isn't part of the envelope. OTOH, it is almost always thought of as being part of it. My personal preference is to make getting the EHLO value an environment item as well, but that's mostly because it avoid the need to write up yet another envelope extension. But I could be convinced this isn't the way to go, which is why I haven't added it to the environment draft yet. Now, getting back to :list, I think this is a tremendously useful extension but it needs a little work. My first issue with it is that :list is currently defined as a new tagged argument orthogonal to any existing arguments. THis seems wrong - I think :list should instead be defined as a new MATCH-TYPE. I say this because it sems to me that :list only makes sense as a :is match - I want to be able to define lists using, say a dynamic LDAP URL where the list name simply gets shoved in to the URL somewhere. I for one don't see any way to support :contains for list names and :matches and :regex are truly scary. My second issue is that the lists it accesses are inherently single-column. I'd like to see the ability to look something up on a list and then get some property information back about the list entry that matched. I'd also like to have a way to get back information on what actually matched - remember that many of our tests check multiple things even if a list of things to check isn't specified. One way to do this that doesn't require any draft changes is to fold the property check into the list name. Suppose you have an external list of addresses "foo" that associates a status of "red", "green" or "yellow" with each address. This could be dealt with by defining "virtual" lists "foo-red", "foo-green" and "foo-yellow". But this rapidly gets unwieldy and also can result in scripts checking the same list more than once - not good if the list check is expensive, which it definitely can be. I believe the better way to do it is to have the test either have a way of specifying required propery values, have a way to return property values, and preferably both. (Note that the thing that matched can be thought of as a property.) The obvious change is to change this so that :list takes the list name or names as an argument and have the key-list match against a single returned property. But this really grots up the more common single-column case and doesn't solve the problem of getting the thing that matched back so I think it is a nonstarter. Another approach is to define a second tagged argument, say :property, that takes as its argument the value that the matching list's "property" has to have. Or you can have :propert take two arguments specifying the property name and value respectively if you want to support multiple properties. (I note in passing that it is trivial to map either form into an LDAP filter.) But while this is cleaner it still may result in scripts performing multiple queries against the same list - not good. And it doesn't provide a way to get back the item that matched - also not good. Variables provide the obvious way to get information back from :list. Suppose :list, like :match, were to set the ${0}, ${1} ... ${N} variables? ${0} would be given the value of the item that matched, ${1} would be the first associated property, ${2} would be its value, ${3} would be the second property name, and so on. So now you could write something like: require ["extlists", "variables", "reject"]; if address :domain :list "from" "known-domains" { set "domain" "${0}"; set "status "${2}"; if string "${status}" "bogus" { reject "From ${domain} is considered bogus"; } elsif string "${status}" "good" { keep; } } I prefer this last approach. The one drawback I see is that this does require variables support, but I reallly don't think that's overly onerous. > By the way, where is the changelog of draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05 ? Sorry, can't help you with that. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 12 03:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_05 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192788730.63723@s1ESEc/9sF9oaLXqHx8Acg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 03:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9CAC189002231 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:12:06 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9C9nNIb027811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l9C9nNvk027810; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:49:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9C9nKOT027804 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 02:49:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@oryx.com) Received: from libertango.oryx.com (libertango.oryx.com [195.30.37.9]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02DD4AC64 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:49:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:49:23 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: autoresponses and localparts Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean This sort of concerns vacation, but it's a little more general really. I'm trying to suppress duplicate autoresponses and have a problem with case sensitivity in localparts. Most locaparts are case insensitive, as far as I can tell. Mine certainly are. So I have three possibilies: 1. Case-fold both localparts before storing the (sender,handle,recipient,expiry) tuple. 2. Case-fold only the sender's localpart. 3. Case-fold neither (just in case :from refers to a non-local case-sensitive localpart). This isn't a big issue. I've seen both Ned.Freed@... and ned.freed@..., so if I don't case-fold, Ned might get two autoresponses. If I inappropriately case-fold, a very very few messages might be suppressed. But I have to decide before I write the unit test, and I'm feeling indecisive. So: What do other implementations do? Arnt From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 12 06:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192800344.59279@QkpaZK8PWbNCewnm3b9++Q X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l9CDPckZ000677 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:25:43 -0400 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9CD2qb9046450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:02:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id l9CD2qhe046449; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:02:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.andrew.cmu.edu (SMTP.andrew.cmu.edu [128.2.10.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id l9CD2nBA046442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:02:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from murch@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: from [192.168.137.23] (cpe-69-207-86-125.buffalo.res.rr.com [69.207.86.125]) (user=murch mech=PLAIN (0 bits)) by smtp.andrew.cmu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l9CD2mGx015692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:02:48 -0400 Message-ID: <470F705D.6020607@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:02:21 -0400 From: Ken Murchison Organization: Carnegie Mellon University User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arnt Gulbrandsen CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: autoresponses and localparts References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.60 on 128.2.10.85 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > > This sort of concerns vacation, but it's a little more general really. > I'm trying to suppress duplicate autoresponses and have a problem with > case sensitivity in localparts. Most locaparts are case insensitive, as > far as I can tell. Mine certainly are. So I have three possibilies: > > 1. Case-fold both localparts before storing the > (sender,handle,recipient,expiry) tuple. > 2. Case-fold only the sender's localpart. > 3. Case-fold neither (just in case :from refers to a non-local > case-sensitive localpart). > > This isn't a big issue. I've seen both Ned.Freed@... and ned.freed@..., > so if I don't case-fold, Ned might get two autoresponses. If I > inappropriately case-fold, a very very few messages might be suppressed. > But I have to decide before I write the unit test, and I'm feeling > indecisive. > > So: What do other implementations do? IIRC, Cyrus doesn't case-fold either localpart. -- Kenneth Murchison Systems Programmer Project Cyrus Developer/Maintainer Carnegie Mellon University From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Oct 12 07:27:02 2007 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1192800523.59007@iejFuxsuivAP9X9v8XAmWQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien2.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1