From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 8 14:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50 autolearn=no version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203107337.24414@Nk2n+dwKHPf5BAVuBvv3ZA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m18KSlnC005490 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:28:53 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m18K6Ibt046783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:06:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m18K6IKL046781; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:06:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m18K6H6l046771 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:06:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:06:16 +0000 Message-ID: <47ACB600.902@isode.com> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:05:20 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: MTA filtering mailing list Subject: draft-ietf-sieve-mime-loop has expired MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Are editors planning to update the document before IETF in Philadelphia? From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 8 14:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50 autolearn=no version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203107957.87248@GXKT8a5RK7WT6D3NQZAlsg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m18KdASv007340 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:39:15 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m18KBV99047216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m18KBVDp047215; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m18KBUCn047206 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:11:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 20:09:56 +0000 Message-ID: <47ACB6DB.6090508@isode.com> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:08:59 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: draft-ietf-sieve-editheader has expired as well MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Philip, Are you planning to update it before Philadelphia? From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Sun Feb 10 13:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203277859.78523@1U/OzlWRzECbEBTC6J8W8w X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Sun, 10 Feb 2008 13:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1AJopKV009423 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:50:57 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1AJZQYu019615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:35:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1AJZQFQ019614; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:35:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from daboo.name (piper.mulberrymail.com [151.201.22.177] (may be forged)) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1AJZNrM019607 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:35:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cyrus@daboo.name) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78AF825DBA3 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:35:22 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daboo.name Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chewy.mulberrymail.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ooaBFTyRlp2C for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (unknown [10.0.1.2]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C4425DB98 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:35:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:35:17 -0500 From: Cyrus Daboo To: SIEVE Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Message-ID: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hi folks, --On December 19, 2007 9:48:17 AM -0500 Cyrus Daboo wrote: > I would like to draw your attention to > draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt. We will start a working group last > call on this document today that will run for four weeks (to account for > the holidays in between). So this last call will end on January 16, 2008. > Please review this document and send your comments to the list, thanks. Lost track of time on this one - sorry! The WG last call is well and truly over on this. There was only one comment from Matthew Elvey (Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-06.txt & spam blowback.). I need to make a determination of WG consensus on this specification, and specifically need to know: 1) How many people have reviewed this draft? 2) Are there any problems with it? 3) Do people agree with Matthew's proposed text? I need to get sufficient responses from WG participants so we can move forward with this draft. -- Cyrus Daboo From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Mon Feb 11 03:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203329034.30427@tYDhDkPfdPtE6nyy/KJhkg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Mon, 11 Feb 2008 03:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1BA3m1F003035 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 05:03:54 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1B9ormO066884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:50:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1B9orb3066883; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:50:53 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1B9omGR066866 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:50:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80ACF4AC7E; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:50:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from 195.30.37.9 (HELO libertango.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com with esmtp id 1202723445-88653-623; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:50:45 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:50:45 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Cc: Cyrus Daboo References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Cyrus Daboo writes: > I need to make a determination of WG consensus on this specification, > and specifically need to know: > > 1) How many people have reviewed this draft? I at least. > 2) Are there any problems with it? Not really. I think it's the best that can be done in the circumstances, and enough of an advance to be worth doing. > 3) Do people agree with Matthew's proposed text? Is that -06? I think -06 is fine. One nit. > I need to get sufficient responses from WG participants so we can move > forward with this draft. Also: I'll rename my "refuse" in my code and verify that the code does everything in -06. (Draft -06 is closer to my code than the earlier version I implemented. I like that.) Arnt From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 12 17:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203464600.14358@wzzHh4lMFaUoNatXCN454Q X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1CNh8DV009790 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:43:17 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1CNSRPZ033013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:28:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1CNSRgj033012; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:28:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1CNSOQA033005 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:28:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MR7P2R5JKW0042BK@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:28:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MR6KPYSL8000004Z@mauve.mrochek.com>; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:28:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: SIEVE Message-id: <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:31:55 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt In-reply-to: "Your message dated Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:35:17 -0500" <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> To: Cyrus Daboo DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1202858902; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=lOyukACr1wjJXbG4k04QWGNhC uPwpPpdBqgQKoQhMFTi4omZWMOyFQ/vVWfTyMzKlfXG38l1OqyTpyWk+4lK4w== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean > Hi folks, > --On December 19, 2007 9:48:17 AM -0500 Cyrus Daboo > wrote: > > I would like to draw your attention to > > draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt. We will start a working group last > > call on this document today that will run for four weeks (to account for > > the holidays in between). So this last call will end on January 16, 2008. > > Please review this document and send your comments to the list, thanks. > Lost track of time on this one - sorry! > The WG last call is well and truly over on this. > There was only one comment from Matthew Elvey (Subject: I-D > Action:draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-06.txt & spam blowback.). > I need to make a determination of WG consensus on this specification, and > specifically need to know: > 1) How many people have reviewed this draft? > 2) Are there any problems with it? > 3) Do people agree with Matthew's proposed text? > I need to get sufficient responses from WG participants so we can move > forward with this draft. I just finished implementing this which gave me a chance to review the document fairly carefully. First, a process issue: This document references RFC 2033 (LMTP) normatively. I have no problem with this but I don't believe the rules allow us to have a normative reference to a informational protocol specification. We're going to have to ask for an exception to be made. Second, the first paragraph of the introduction makes it sound like the ereject action always results in a protocol-level error. This is untrue - the ereject action mandates the use of an SMTP-level response whenever possible but it doesn't require it because it cannot. I suggest adding "whenever possible" to the last sentence of this paragraph. Third, the draft in general and section 2.1.2 in particular almost makes it seem like LMTP is some sort of solution to the blowback problem. This is incorrect - all implementation at the LMTP server level does is push the blowback generation one level off. Unless you happen to have an MTA that can operate in passthrough mode and which can pass back an LMTP server error response to the SMTP client that's still connected and waiting for that final status, the MTA is going to convert any errors it gets into a DSN, which in the case of a joe-job becomes blowback spam. And even if you happen to have such an MTA, it still has to use a DSN when there are multiple LMTP recipients that return different results. This approach solves nothing unless the LMTP client is itself a spambot, and if that's the case blowback spam is guaranteed to be the least of your worries. Section 2.1.2 also implies that the reason the DSN exception doesn't apply to LMTP is because of it's ability to perform per-recipient message rejections. This is also incorrect - the reason the LMTP server shouldn't be generating DSNs is quite simply that it is inappropriate and dangerous for it to do so. In order to see why this is so, consider the case of a message with NOTIFY=SUCCESS,FAILURE set which is then refused by the LMTP server. The LMTP server has no way to know this setting was in effect. Generating a DSN of its own places it in an impossible situation: it has to send either a 2yz or 5yz response, and either way the originator ends up getting two DSNs for a single recipient (5yz is arguably better because at least then the two DSNs don't directly contradict each other.) I therefore recommend changing the first paragraph to read something like this: An implementation may receive a message via SMTP that has more than one RCPT TO that has been accepted by the server, and at least one but not all of them are refusing delivery (whether the refusal is caused by a Sieve "ereject" action or for some other reason) or different recipients are refusing delivery for different reasons. In such cases, the SMTP server MUST accept the message and generate DSNs for all recipients that are refusing it. Note that this exception does not apply to LMTP because LMTP returns per-recipient message statuses and does not generate DSNs of its own. (However, note that when different recipients have different final statuses the SMTP has no choice but to generate DSNs of its own.) Next, the recommendations on how to handle non-ASCII text are problematic in the case of LMTP and a passthrough MTA. Section 2.1.2 says that an 8bit response should be relayed back to the client if an 8bit protocol extension is available and in the case of ereject flattened into a stock ASCII repsonse if it is not. But suppose the LMTP connection supports the extension but the SMTP connection does not. In this case the MTA isn't going to know that the LMTP server would prefer to have the text replaced than send a DSN. Given the uncommonness of passthrough MTAs I doubt this point is worth addressing but I thought I should mention it. Finally, the draft doesn't mention the case where different recipients refuse the message for different reasons. I tried to cover this in my suggested replacement test for 2.1.2, but there are some other places in the document like the second list item in section 2.2 where we may want to mention it.. One final comment. it has long been my view that while reject has certain legitimate uses, dealing with spam isn't one of them. In my view reject is for situations where a likely legitimate but nevertheless inappropriate message is received and you want to inform the originator of the message's inappropriateness. Examples include things like homework submitted after the cutoff date is passed, messages that exceed some length limit for a given recipient, and so on. To the extent that this draft focuses on making reject safer and defining a new ereject that is safer still, I worry that we may actually be making the blowback problem worse, not better by encouraging use of these actions when a discard would be more appropriate. Mind you, I'm not recommending any changes to the draft, but perhaps a direct statement that "the risk that these actions will generate blowback spam are minimized but canont be eliminated completely even in the case of ereject, so caution is advised when using these actions to deal with messages determined to be spam" would be worth considering. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 12:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203533890.01526@GR1ztB0dNVpdHbKMog+Z/w X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DIw2S6010409 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:58:07 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DIfsBc023363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DIfsHh023361; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:41:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DIfpoJ023354 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:41:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:41:50 +0000 Message-ID: <47B339A1.4010706@isode.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:40:33 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Ned Freed CC: Cyrus Daboo , SIEVE Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Ned Freed wrote: > First, a process issue: This document references RFC 2033 (LMTP) > normatively. I > have no problem with this but I don't believe the rules allow us to > have a > normative reference to a informational protocol specification. We're > going to > have to ask for an exception to be made. Indeed. I was also thinking about revising LMTP spec to move it to Standard Track, but it is sufficiently low on my list of IETF priorities. From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 13:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203538755.85597@cvYX/F58vx+fTMVV0MgniQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DKJ8lJ021865 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:19:14 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DK4tra031434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DK4tvV031433; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:04:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.serendipity.cx (serendipity.palo-alto.ca.us [66.92.2.87]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DK4sHi031425 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:04:54 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from aaron@serendipity.cx) Received: from [192.168.64.64] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.serendipity.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227228B79; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:05:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <47B339A1.4010706@isode.com> References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> <47B339A1.4010706@isode.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <19B81CC5-9CD0-41BA-99A4-2D4D08922678@serendipity.cx> Cc: Ned Freed , Cyrus Daboo , SIEVE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Aaron Stone Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:04:47 -0800 To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean On Feb 13, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > Ned Freed wrote: > >> First, a process issue: This document references RFC 2033 (LMTP) >> normatively. I >> have no problem with this but I don't believe the rules allow us >> to have a >> normative reference to a informational protocol specification. >> We're going to >> have to ask for an exception to be made. > > Indeed. I was also thinking about revising LMTP spec to move it to > Standard Track, but it is sufficiently low on my list of IETF > priorities. > At the Vancouver IETF, both Lisa and Chris indicated that it would be straightforward to get a variance for this. (As I understand, it requires the IESG to sign off on the variance?) Aaron From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 13:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203538987.5195@2VekLvhuDpwtjBDfrRgz2g X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DKN01e022229 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:23:05 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DK9btx031865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DK9buQ031864; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.60.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DK9ZtA031852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from smtp.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1JPNv9-0000Js-9K; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:09:31 +0100 X-Mail-Sent-By-AEGEE.org-Account: didopalauzov Received: from [129.13.227.228] (vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.72.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.aegee.org (8.14.2/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m1DK9VXT017637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:09:32 GMT Message-ID: <47B34E7B.2070300@aegee.org> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:09:31 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ned Freed CC: Cyrus Daboo , SIEVE Subject: action reject and smtp RCPT TO: References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/5802/Wed Feb 13 19:15:41 2008 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hello, If sieve scripts are written in the form: if (envelope tests....) { reject; stop;} some other tests and actions; the scripts can be applied once after the RCPT TO: command and once after the DATA command. If the first script calling is successful (stop; is reached without trying tests, that require headers or body), and the reject action is performed, then the sieve script can reject the message at the RCPT TO: level. The application of such scripts is, e.g. for mailing lists, with scripts like if (recipient is a mailing list and sender is not allowed to post there) {reject; stop;} which will save the consequent NDRs, send from the mailing list software. This approach is not considered in draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-06, 2.2 Action reject...However implementations MAY refuse delivery over protocol ..., if and only if all of the following conditions are true: 2. ... Със здраве, Дилян From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 14:27:04 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203539480.72529@6Ru0v6WHK5UpMCxieXXqUw X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DKVFMv022961 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:31:20 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DKDmKY032396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:13:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DKDmcE032395; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:13:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from daboo.name (piper.mulberrymail.com [151.201.22.177] (may be forged)) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DKDlnG032386 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:13:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from cyrus@daboo.name) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C01D2AB1FF; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:13:44 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daboo.name Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chewy.mulberrymail.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gQLTxe6cqAAJ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:13:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from caldav.corp.apple.com (unknown [17.101.32.44]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B43C2AB1F8; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:13:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:13:39 -0500 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Aaron Stone , Alexey Melnikov cc: Ned Freed , SIEVE Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Message-ID: <6C5E7239004FE384548AD61C@caldav.corp.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <19B81CC5-9CD0-41BA-99A4-2D4D08922678@serendipity.cx> References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> <47B339A1.4010706@isode.com> <19B81CC5-9CD0-41BA-99A4-2D4D08922678@serendipity.cx> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hi Aaron, --On February 13, 2008 12:04:47 PM -0800 Aaron Stone wrote: >> Indeed. I was also thinking about revising LMTP spec to move it to >> Standard Track, but it is sufficiently low on my list of IETF >> priorities. >> > > At the Vancouver IETF, both Lisa and Chris indicated that it would be > straightforward to get a variance for this. (As I understand, it requires > the IESG to sign off on the variance?) That is my recollection too. I will have to check up on the exact procedure for this - certainly the write-up I do will make mention of it, what I don't know is whether there has to be something in the draft itself. -- Cyrus Daboo From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 14:27:04 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,STOX_REPLY_TYPE autolearn=no version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203540913.63358@yYZJMnG8IQ3yNLz98x02jg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DKt7dO026708 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:55:12 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DKdVii034388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DKdVwe034387; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:39:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from out4.smtp.messagingengine.com (out4.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DKdU3r034380 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:39:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robm@fastmail.fm) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.internal [10.202.2.42]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D8390C06 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:39:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:39:29 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: NhSfgkvTNZO2ISJaQFP9O3MBPNyGaiuWMqKGUiI45/22 1202935168 Received: from robmhp (dsl-202-173-180-52.vic.westnet.com.au [202.173.180.52]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364F2D63B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:39:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> From: "Rob Mueller" To: Subject: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:39:18 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean We're a large cyrus installation, and I recently got an email from a customer noticing that cyrus doesn't correctly decode MIME encoded headers when doing sieve header matches. I looked through the cyrus code, and I think the fix is actually pretty easy, but it occured to me that in fixing this, we completely loose the ability to match against the non-decoded headers. That's actually annoying because I know a number of people do that to try and block emails with particular character sets in the subject line. For instance I know people have script tests like this: if header :contains "subject" "?koir-8?" { ... } To catch and drop all emails with Russian subjects. By fixing this bug, it would break those existing scripts, and from what I can see in the RFC, there's no way to actually force a match against the non-decoded header (eg no :raw option or something like that). Am I missing something? Is there a way to make a header match against a non-decoded header? Rob From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 14:27:05 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203542251.70916@NCPY0yrpQgGY4eCwdhlaZA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:27:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DLHO1Y024460 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:17:30 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DL2UBS035682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DL2UHP035681; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DL2TUt035675 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A6F4AC7B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:02:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from 195.30.37.9 (HELO libertango.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com with esmtp id 1202936547-88653-1728; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:02:27 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:02:27 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Cc: Alexey Melnikov , Ned Freed , Aaron Stone , Cyrus Daboo References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> <47B339A1.4010706@isode.com> <19B81CC5-9CD0-41BA-99A4-2D4D08922678@serendipity.cx> <6C5E7239004FE384548AD61C@caldav.corp.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <6C5E7239004FE384548AD61C@caldav.corp.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Cyrus Daboo writes: > That is my recollection too. I will have to check up on the exact > procedure for this - certainly the write-up I do will make mention of > it, what I don't know is whether there has to be something in the > draft itself. The same thing (AFAICR) happened for RFC 4978, which refers normatively to RFC 1951. The dependency had to be called out in the IETF Last Call, that was the only thing I noticed. Arnt From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 15:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203543270.1276@t7RD9hyLsfTkUN0Vn9Bc8g X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DLYL5X021373 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:34:27 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DLJW27037007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:19:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DLJW3G037006; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:19:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.60.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DLJUVZ036998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:19:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from smtp.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1JPP0r-00072u-Ns; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:19:29 +0100 X-Mail-Sent-By-AEGEE.org-Account: didopalauzov Received: from [129.13.227.228] (vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.72.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.aegee.org (8.14.2/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m1DLJUTl032529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:19:30 GMT Message-ID: <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:19:29 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Mueller CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> In-Reply-To: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/5803/Wed Feb 13 20:25:54 2008 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hello Rob, I see nothing wrong to encode ordinary ASCII headers with ?koir-8? style. If you want to check against headers containing Cyrillic letters, then if header :contains "subject" "е" { ... } shall do the work, where "e" is Unicode 0435. Със здраве, Дилян Rob Mueller wrote: > > We're a large cyrus installation, and I recently got an email from a > customer noticing that cyrus doesn't correctly decode MIME encoded > headers when doing sieve header matches. > > I looked through the cyrus code, and I think the fix is actually pretty > easy, but it occured to me that in fixing this, we completely loose the > ability to match against the non-decoded headers. That's actually > annoying because I know a number of people do that to try and block > emails with particular character sets in the subject line. For instance > I know people have script tests like this: > > if header :contains "subject" "?koir-8?" { ... } > > To catch and drop all emails with Russian subjects. > > By fixing this bug, it would break those existing scripts, and from what > I can see in the RFC, there's no way to actually force a match against > the non-decoded header (eg no :raw option or something like that). > > Am I missing something? Is there a way to make a header match against a > non-decoded header? > > Rob > From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 15:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203544145.34834@0rCWAUovm49/mPcayr5FfA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DLmvQg023163 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:49:02 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DLPjCA037499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DLPjsk037498; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.60.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DLPhZK037492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:25:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from smtp.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1JPP6s-0000G1-VD; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:25:43 +0100 X-Mail-Sent-By-AEGEE.org-Account: didopalauzov Received: from [129.13.227.228] (vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.72.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.aegee.org (8.14.2/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m1DLPhu8000907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:25:43 GMT Message-ID: <47B36056.3030702@aegee.org> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:25:42 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Mueller CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> In-Reply-To: <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/5803/Wed Feb 13 20:25:54 2008 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Post Scriptum: Sometimes when I reread the mail, just before sending it out, I correct here and there something. Usually, when the mail is finished my keyboard layout is in Cyrillic. Sometimes, when I do the corrections, I make the edits without changing the layout, thus instead of writing "a" I write "а" (these are symbols that have different unicode number), especially when I know that the recipient has a UTF-8 capable client. From time to time I correct the subject in this way. So I consider the policy your users apply as wrong. Better use spam filter, instruct it to increase the spammines, when encoded headers arrive, and sum the results of the spam tests, before evaluating the mail for spam. Дилян Палаузов wrote: > Hello Rob, > > I see nothing wrong to encode ordinary ASCII headers with ?koir-8? > style. If you want to check against headers containing Cyrillic letters, > then > if header :contains "subject" "е" { ... } > shall do the work, where "e" is Unicode 0435. > > Със здраве, > Дилян > > Rob Mueller wrote: >> >> We're a large cyrus installation, and I recently got an email from a >> customer noticing that cyrus doesn't correctly decode MIME encoded >> headers when doing sieve header matches. >> >> I looked through the cyrus code, and I think the fix is actually >> pretty easy, but it occured to me that in fixing this, we completely >> loose the ability to match against the non-decoded headers. That's >> actually annoying because I know a number of people do that to try and >> block emails with particular character sets in the subject line. For >> instance I know people have script tests like this: >> >> if header :contains "subject" "?koir-8?" { ... } >> >> To catch and drop all emails with Russian subjects. >> >> By fixing this bug, it would break those existing scripts, and from >> what I can see in the RFC, there's no way to actually force a match >> against the non-decoded header (eg no :raw option or something like >> that). >> >> Am I missing something? Is there a way to make a header match against >> a non-decoded header? >> >> Rob >> > From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 16:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_05 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203547164.88499@5AChf3WlwIiM2ZlJoiPCsg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1DMdJI0003470 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:39:24 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DMMdH6041409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:22:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1DMMdUF041408; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:22:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from out4.smtp.messagingengine.com (out4.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1DMMcIR041401 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:22:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from robm@fastmail.fm) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93AE29118F; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:22:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:22:38 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: 8AO1U+qmsStjvBgrCJUExODUxyhmS4Ot1qwcKOjMP0UH 1202941357 Received: from robmhp (203-206-204-211.perm.iinet.net.au [203.206.204.211]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55D8236BC; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:22:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> From: "Rob Mueller" To: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= Cc: References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:22:37 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean > I see nothing wrong to encode ordinary ASCII headers with ?koir-8? > style. If you want to check against headers containing Cyrillic letters, While that's in theory true, it's in practice rare. Still maybe they know that they converse with no-one that ever uses any Russian encoding system with their email client, so blocking all koir-8 headers is still a reasonable action. > if header :contains "subject" "е" { ... } > shall do the work, where "e" is Unicode 0435. I presume "e" (unicode 0435) is a common character in Russian text. Still there's no guarantee that a Russian header will contain an "e" (unicode 0435) in it. It doesn't get past the point that there is still no way to look at the raw undecoded header even if you wanted to for some other reason. Am I missing something? Was that intentional in the spec? Rob From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 13 22:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203568803.82627@dHrueT314QLnFqiIWGL4Hg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1E4dtZb009007 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:40:01 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1E4L2Xc066837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:21:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1E4L2Pl066835; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:21:02 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1E4KxHk066824 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:20:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8; reply-type=response Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MR9DKRS5SG0045NJ@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MR6KPYSL8000004Z@mauve.mrochek.com>; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:20:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MR9DKQXA7000004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:13:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:22:37 +1100" <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> To: Rob Mueller DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1202962853; h=MIME-version: Content-transfer-encoding:Content-type:Date:From:Subject; b=q1aT8Ww AdFPckFaWJF6rX3gzfk2Tuo9hB7dgVboZl5EATgqVUkBqCXYkWINtptT5sGmQvT3dOd x9CEQ+KJZ/ug== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean > > I see nothing wrong to encode ordinary ASCII headers with ?koir-8? > > style. If you want to check against headers containing Cyrillic letters, > While that's in theory true, it's in practice rare. > Still maybe they know that they converse with no-one that ever uses any > Russian encoding system with their email client, so blocking all koir-8 > headers is still a reasonable action. > > if header :contains "subject" "е" { ... } > > shall do the work, where "e" is Unicode 0435. > I presume "e" (unicode 0435) is a common character in Russian text. Still > there's no guarantee that a Russian header will contain an "e" (unicode > 0435) in it. > It doesn't get past the point that there is still no way to look at the raw > undecoded header even if you wanted to for some other reason. > Am I missing something? Was that intentional in the spec? FWIW, I brought the idea of having an option not to decide the header in the distant past but there was little enthusiasm for it so I dropped it. It would be an easy extension to specify, of course. Our implementation has an option to do this that was added because, if memory serves, a particular customer requested it. I've used it myself in a couple of cases to catch some bogons. I don't know if any other customers have used it, but I don't recall anyone else asking for the capbility. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 14 08:27:04 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203607136.51109@8vjIU6k3IL8E+o3DQKphFg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1EFIlj1007010 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:18:53 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1EEvURc014512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:57:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1EEvUZI014511; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:57:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.60.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1EEvQma014501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:57:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from smtp.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1JPfWf-0006O2-9M; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:57:25 +0100 X-Mail-Sent-By-AEGEE.org-Account: didopalauzov Received: from [192.168.1.6] (d213-101-228-161.cust.tele2.de [213.101.228.161]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.aegee.org (8.14.2/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m1EEvShn022112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:57:29 GMT Message-ID: <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:57:18 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rob Mueller CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> In-Reply-To: <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/5809/Thu Feb 14 10:52:07 2008 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hello Rob, If somebody does not want to accept headers with Cyrillic characters, s/he has to list all character sets allowing Cyrillic characters, including UTF-8. For me this job is more for a per-user spam filter, than to Sieve. Nevertheless, I think that including an option raw in test envelope, supposes introduction of a similar option in test body, draft-ietf-sieve-body-07, Section 4.2. ":content". Със здраве, Дилян Rob Mueller wrote: > > >> I see nothing wrong to encode ordinary ASCII headers with ?koir-8? >> style. If you want to check against headers containing Cyrillic letters, > > While that's in theory true, it's in practice rare. > > Still maybe they know that they converse with no-one that ever uses any > Russian encoding system with their email client, so blocking all koir-8 > headers is still a reasonable action. > >> if header :contains "subject" "е" { ... } >> shall do the work, where "e" is Unicode 0435. > > I presume "e" (unicode 0435) is a common character in Russian text. > Still there's no guarantee that a Russian header will contain an "e" > (unicode 0435) in it. > > It doesn't get past the point that there is still no way to look at the > raw undecoded header even if you wanted to for some other reason. > > Am I missing something? Was that intentional in the spec? > > Rob > From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 14 09:27:04 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203608245.34691@GLbLSWLa+9jZx0z8DPFfjQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:27:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1EFbIm7009421 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:37:23 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1EFJuPa016787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:19:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1EFJuKS016786; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:19:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1EFJtFj016780 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:19:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF03A4AC87; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:19:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from 195.30.37.9 (HELO libertango.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com with esmtp id 1203002393-88653-2005; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:19:53 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:19:53 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? Cc: Rob Mueller , =?KOI8-R?b?5MnM0c4g8MHMwdXaz9c=?= References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> In-Reply-To: <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean I've been thinking about a langtest extension for a good long while. Like this: langtest returns true if the message does or may use that language, and returns false if it certainly does not. This is a fairly easy language test to implement, and I think it could be useful in scripts. Language detection in general is very hard, but this particular version is easy. And it can be used easily in scripts. For me, discarding russian safely would be something like: If allof( langtest "ru", not langtest ["no","de","en"] ) ... Perhaps it ought to take two arguments, and return true if the language may be in the first list and is definitely not in the second list. Comments? Arnt From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 14 12:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203620247.79715@vV21RMpjUj0orgCj0yBk0Q X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1EIvJoc004374 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:57:24 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1EIeb0F032806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:40:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1EIebis032805; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:40:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.andrew.cmu.edu (SMTP.andrew.cmu.edu [128.2.10.85]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1EIeZ7O032796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:40:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from murch@andrew.cmu.edu) Received: from [192.168.137.23] (cpe-69-207-86-125.buffalo.res.rr.com [69.207.86.125]) (user=murch mech=PLAIN (0 bits)) by smtp.andrew.cmu.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1EIeVGZ017020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:40:32 -0500 Message-ID: <47B48B1D.4090301@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:40:29 -0500 From: Ken Murchison Organization: Carnegie Mellon University User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ned Freed CC: Rob Mueller , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <01MR9DKQXA7000004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MR9DKQXA7000004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.60 on 128.2.10.85 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Ned Freed wrote: > >> It doesn't get past the point that there is still no way to look at >> the raw >> undecoded header even if you wanted to for some other reason. > >> Am I missing something? Was that intentional in the spec? > > FWIW, I brought the idea of having an option not to decide the header in > the > distant past but there was little enthusiasm for it so I dropped it. It > would > be an easy extension to specify, of course. > > Our implementation has an option to do this that was added because, if > memory > serves, a particular customer requested it. I've used it myself in a > couple of cases to catch some bogons. I don't know if any other customers > have used it, but I don't recall anyone else asking for the capbility. Ned, would you mind sharing the syntax that your implementation uses? If we implement this in Cyrus, we might as well use a consistent syntax. -- Kenneth Murchison Systems Programmer Project Cyrus Developer/Maintainer Carnegie Mellon University From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 14 20:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203647740.36183@iiHqZ0j4I6HhhvWKP92nWA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1F2ZX0B015327 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:35:39 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F2Gpdk063200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:16:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1F2GpIb063199; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:16:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F2Gnkk063193 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:16:50 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MRANJ95XHC004D7M@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:16:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MR6KPYSL8000004Z@mauve.mrochek.com>; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:16:42 -0800 (PST) Cc: Rob Mueller , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:07:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:57:18 +0100" <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> To: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1203041807; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=WeIPt+zgoztyAZ7pQmK03Obos fb5QatsgQsFkqiLKApyQ/j4rHzeA59ZFWoQ5qMBoIUo9xlI7zh9aEGF8unRVA== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean > Hello Rob, > If somebody does not want to accept headers with Cyrillic characters, > s/he has to list all character sets allowing Cyrillic characters, > including UTF-8. OK, I seem to be missing something basic here, but given that a properly functioning Sieve implementation will decode all encoded words using well-known charsets to Utf-8, why would you need to list anything other than the Cyrillic characters as they appear in UTF-8? Using :regex with a bracket expression covering the entire Cyrillic range in Unicode (0400-04FF) strikes me as the obvious way to do this. > For me this job is more for a per-user spam filter, > than to Sieve. I've ignored the question of _why_ you'd want to do this. > Nevertheless, I think that including an option raw in test envelope, > supposes introduction of a similar option in test body, > draft-ietf-sieve-body-07, Section 4.2. ":content". Again I must be missing something - envelope deals in envelope address information which is currently restricted to ASCII. Perhaps you meant the header test instead? Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 14 22:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203655069.43476@v6wVJUbxCreaYG80/x4sMA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1F4beAB022800 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:37:45 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F4N52V069619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:23:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1F4N5FI069618; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:23:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de (smtp.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.62.220]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F4N3gq069611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:23:04 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org) Received: from smtp.aegee.org (aegeeserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.131.80]) by smtp2.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 4.63 #1) id 1JPs6I-0002KF-0a; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:23:02 +0100 X-Mail-Sent-By-AEGEE.org-Account: didopalauzov Received: from [192.168.1.6] (d213-101-238-214.cust.tele2.de [213.101.238.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.aegee.org (8.14.2/8.13.6) with ESMTP id m1F4N2DK007775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:23:04 GMT Message-ID: <47B513A0.1020802@aegee.org> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:22:56 +0100 From: =?UTF-8?B?0JTQuNC70Y/QvSDQn9Cw0LvQsNGD0LfQvtCy?= User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ned Freed CC: IETF Sieve WG Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/5829/Fri Feb 15 04:00:17 2008 on AEGEEserv.aegee.uni-karlsruhe.de X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Hello Ned, > OK, I seem to be missing something basic here, but given that a > properly functioning Sieve implementation will decode all encoded > words using well-known charsets to Utf-8, why would you need to list > anything other than the Cyrillic characters as they appear in UTF-8? The point is that Rob asked for properly functioning Sieve implementation that rejects mails with KOI8-R encoded subjects, as he searches for a way to refuse mails with subjects in Russian language. If he wants to refuse mail with subject in Russian language, or any other language using Cyrillic alphabet, based on the used charset, then he is supposed to list all charsets that can be used for encoding Cyrillic characters. To achieve what he wants, it is easier to check for the presence of ~ 3 most used characters in Cyrillic languages, regardless of the used charset. Using regex with brackets is even better that listing the 3 most used characters. >> Nevertheless, I think that including an option raw in test envelope, >> supposes introduction of a similar option in test body, >> draft-ietf-sieve-body-07, Section 4.2. ":content". > > Again I must be missing something - envelope deals in envelope address > information which is currently restricted to ASCII. Perhaps you meant > the header test instead? Here I mean header test, I am sorry for the confusion. Със здраве, Дилян From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 14 22:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203655200.08614@NzJr/Hu9j1NlZ3e8rcSUEg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1F4drGF022936 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:39:58 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F4N08l069609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1F4N0Ni069608; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:23:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from ladle.sendmail.com (ladle.sendmail.com [209.246.26.53]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F4Mw5Q069601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:22:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from guenther+mtafilters@sendmail.com) Received: from spork.sendmail.com (tls.sendmail.com [209.246.26.41]) by ladle.sendmail.com (Switch-3.3.1/Sentrion-3.0.0) with ESMTP id m1F4NSxN003826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:23:28 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=ladle.dkim; t=1203049410; bh=fGwZ6Kp9YjIE+HXhLgCTwBtgZ5NsnQYmnsmy 7ocDs9c=; h=Received:X-DKIM:DKIM-Signature:Date:From:X-X-Sender:To: cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version: Content-Type:X-MM-Ex-RefId; b=nIntp4HjbtikwpXHKh9jo8HhHVRmk8GXCoZF yUgIoNR/Q/N8rEzI69eFyuRBPwHjYtgf+Ea8t3RrwRE8i1RDGX0reFZSTGH4fAteHAF i3+fzL7oCO3iC9GUEbQO1s3Nk7Qz7tAcnDFIszIsKA8JBT1anUxszPlNqNYUVUYHSdR I= Received: from [192.168.0.2] (adsl-64-58-1-252.mho.net [64.58.1.252] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by spork.sendmail.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id m1F4NJCr001253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:23:25 -0800 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.2.2 spork.sendmail.com m1F4NJCr001253 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sendmail.com; s=spork.dkim; t=1203049408; bh=fGwZ6Kp9YjIE+HXhLgCTwBtgZ5NsnQYmnsmy 7ocDs9c=; h=Date:From:X-X-Sender:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-MM-Ex-RefId; b=E hKEuCkcykmIi19W9XsnNWQRz8tSrU3akVc0ZuPUpKdmajKIl4RrGLvFAnPBiRhY7Lm5 hNRYA+2EbZa4iD9jbx1ZS98eyJMoJlvfsmaXwQ18IP9Ie7OR10uyC7hVXLtqXYFmull SZqNMbhhedG27YN2gGODayKIy/96+kIy5AXM= Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:22:40 -0700 From: Philip Guenther X-X-Sender: guenther@vanye.mho.net To: Ned Freed cc: Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org, Rob Mueller , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? In-Reply-To: <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Message-ID: References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-MM-Ex-RefId: 149371::080214202327-0E88DB90-56057DDC/0-0/0-1 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean On Thu, 14 Feb 2008, Ned Freed wrote: >> If somebody does not want to accept headers with Cyrillic characters, >> s/he has to list all character sets allowing Cyrillic characters, >> including UTF-8. > > OK, I seem to be missing something basic here, but given that a properly > functioning Sieve implementation will decode all encoded words using > well-known charsets to Utf-8, why would you need to list anything other than > the Cyrillic characters as they appear in UTF-8? > > Using :regex with a bracket expression covering the entire Cyrillic range in > Unicode (0400-04FF) strikes me as the obvious way to do this. It would arguably be better to use a regexp of "\p{Cyrillic}", as there's apparently a couple Cyrillic characters outside the Cyrillic block now. To quote http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/Scripts.txt: 1D2B ; Cyrillic # L& CYRILLIC LETTER SMALL CAPITAL EL 1D78 ; Cyrillic # Lm MODIFIER LETTER CYRILLIC EN ...but those aren't in the koi8-r tables I've seen, so they may be irrelevant to the goal. As always, figuring out what the actual goal is is key to finding the optimal implementation. Philip Guenther From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 15 02:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203670092.58122@EI1/snpV6PctgrT0icR8mQ X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1F8m6aM000402 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:48:11 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F8ZSgv081949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:35:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1F8ZSJd081948; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:35:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1F8ZPxo081940 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:35:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490784AC64; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:35:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from 195.30.37.9 (HELO libertango.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com with esmtp id 1203064523-82653-1; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:35:23 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:35:23 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? Cc: Ned Freed , Philip Guenther , Rob Mueller , Dilyan.Palauzov@aegee.org References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Philip Guenther writes: > It would arguably be better to use a regexp of "\p{Cyrillic}", as > there's apparently a couple Cyrillic characters outside the Cyrillic > block now. To quote > http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/Scripts.txt: > 1D2B ; Cyrillic # L& CYRILLIC LETTER SMALL CAPITAL EL > 1D78 ; Cyrillic # Lm MODIFIER LETTER CYRILLIC EN > > ...but those aren't in the koi8-r tables I've seen, so they may be > irrelevant to the goal. Koi8-r is (almost) just the Russian subset of Cyrillic. The other languages using Cyrillic have other subsets. I think en is for Ukrainian, but don't hold me to that. Arnt From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 15 04:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203679291.05659@cybWnr7ee+VzmCzM+uXaRA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1FBLOJH007792 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 06:21:30 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1FB8Qeb091331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:08:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1FB8QHm091330; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:08:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1FB8NIu091323 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 04:08:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 305924ACCC; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:08:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from 195.30.37.9 (HELO libertango.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com with esmtp id 1203073702-86303-1; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:08:22 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:08:22 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Filtering on raw (non-decoded) headers? Cc: Ned Freed , Rob Mueller , =?KOI8-R?b?5MnM0c4g8MHMwdXaz9c=?= References: <020e01c86e80$894922c0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B35EE1.8090205@aegee.org> <02a501c86e8e$f2982dd0$0c01a8c0@robmhp> <47B456CE.3050606@aegee.org> <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MRANJ5MWSW00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Ned Freed writes: >> For me this job is more for a per-user spam filter, than to Sieve. > > I've ignored the question of _why_ you'd want to do this. Some people do, including me. For some reason I get a truckload of Turkish spam. That's not common - I don't know anyone else in Munich who does. IMO using regexps to identify Russian mail is too crude. There are too many other messages that contain one or five or ten Cyrillic characters. Dilyan's messages in this thread would match. If there is a significant need to do it (more than just myself and five other people), then we need something like the langtest I suggested. Arnt From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 15 15:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1203716431.6801@402jDVpV9HmAFD7hFmSJ4w X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1FLeO6u026218 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:40:30 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1FLJGhd035626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:19:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1FLJGhf035625; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:19:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1FLJBSS035611 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:19:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lisa@osafoundation.org) Received: from localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA7BC142742; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:19:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org Received: from laweleka.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vp+ubiLRcY-u; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:19:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.1.4.102] (ip20.commerce.net [157.22.41.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by laweleka.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6210614220E; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:19:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <19B81CC5-9CD0-41BA-99A4-2D4D08922678@serendipity.cx> References: <21C5556C51FE0FCA0D6008C5@ninevah.local> <01MR7P2PA4FO00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> <47B339A1.4010706@isode.com> <19B81CC5-9CD0-41BA-99A4-2D4D08922678@serendipity.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: Alexey Melnikov , Ned Freed , Cyrus Daboo , SIEVE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lisa Dusseault Subject: Re: Working Group Last Call: draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-05.txt Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:19:03 -0800 To: Aaron Stone X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean There's also a fair argument for making the reference to LMTP informative. It's certainly not necessary (and if I understand correctly, not common) to implement LMTP in order to implement SIEVE; it's not even necessary to read RFC2033. The informational nature of this reference could be made more obvious in the text if we like. E.g. in the first instance: 1. Refuse message delivery by sending a 5XX response code over SMTP [SMTP]. Optionally, if LMTP [LMTP] is used, refuse message delivery by sending a 5XX response code over LMTP. See Section 2.1.1 for more details. We could also gather the references to LMTP into one section. But yes, if the main text stays like it is, the variance has to be requested in IETF Last Call -- don't let your AD forget to do that ;) Lisa On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Aaron Stone wrote: > > On Feb 13, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >> >> Ned Freed wrote: >> >>> First, a process issue: This document references RFC 2033 (LMTP) >>> normatively. I >>> have no problem with this but I don't believe the rules allow us >>> to have a >>> normative reference to a informational protocol specification. >>> We're going to >>> have to ask for an exception to be made. >> >> Indeed. I was also thinking about revising LMTP spec to move it to >> Standard Track, but it is sufficiently low on my list of IETF >> priorities. >> > > At the Vancouver IETF, both Lisa and Chris indicated that it would > be straightforward to get a variance for this. (As I understand, it > requires the IESG to sign off on the variance?) > > Aaron > From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 19 15:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1204061622.31243@Q56yXi7m9dzkNUmB4GZHAg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1JLXXPS026569 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:33:39 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JLF0AL008971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:15:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1JLF0mm008970; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:15:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JLExNF008961 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:15:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from root@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id C81263A6AE2; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:15:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080219211501.C81263A6AE2@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:15:01 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be infected Subject: {Blocked Content} I-D Action:draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-09.txt --NextPart Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed Warning: (not named). Warning: Please read the "mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" attachment(s) for more information. A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : Sieve Notification Mechanism: xmpp Author(s) : P. Saint-Andre, A. Melnikov Filename : draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-09.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2008-02-19 This document describes a profile of the Sieve extension for notifications, to allow notifications to be sent over the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP), also known as Jabber. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-09.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-09.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-09.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Tue Feb 19 16:33:42 2008 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20080219 (message m1JLXXPS026569). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="mallorn-Attachment-Warning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a message from the MailScanner E-Mail Virus Protection Service ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The original e-mail attachment "not named" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced by this warning message. If you wish to receive a copy of the *infected* attachment, please e-mail helpdesk and include the whole of this message in your request. Alternatively, you can call them, with the contents of this message to hand when you call. At Tue Feb 19 16:33:42 2008 the virus scanner said: External message bodies cannot be scanned and are removed Note to Help Desk: Look on the mallorn MailScanner in /var/spool/quarantine= /20080219 (message m1JLXXPS026569). --=20 Postmaster Mallorn Computing, Inc. http://www.mallorn.com/ For all your IT requirements visit: http://www.transtec.co.uk --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 21 07:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1204206040.12456@vLzi+xGaxggcJSjZ2aTijA X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1LDeVLZ020834 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:40:36 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LDQfQv042464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:26:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1LDQfwW042463; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:26:41 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LDQcmJ042447 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:26:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:26:36 +0000 Message-ID: <47BD7BE5.1000201@isode.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:25:57 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Proposed agenda for the Sieve WG meeting in Philadelphia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Agenda Document status review ( 5 mins) Progressing RFC 5228 to Draft Standard ( 5 mins) Sieve Body IESG comments (draft-ietf-sieve-body-07.txt) (10 mins) Notify Mailto (draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-06.txt) (20 mins) Mime Loops (draft-ietf-sieve-mime-loop-04.txt) (20 mins) Reject/Refuse (draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-06.txt) (10 mins) Non WG documents: Sieve METADATA (draft-melnikov-sieve-imapext-metadata-03.txt) (10 mins) IMAP Sieve (draft-ietf-lemonade-imap-sieve-04.txt) (15 mins) Notify SIP (draft-melnikov-sieve-notify-sip-message-00.txt) (15 mins) XML representation for Sieve (draft-freed-sieve-in-xml-00.txt) * ( 5 mins) Sieve date-time and index (draft-freed-sieve-date-index-07.txt) * ( 5 mins) Total: 120 mins ================================= Items marked with * depend on presence of editors for corresponding documents. Comments? From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 21 13:27:02 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1204230200.2029@2GYCW8Y9OvxMwDDYL7gBmw X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1LKNEu1014326 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:23:19 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LK7jvV087363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:07:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1LK7jQN087362; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:07:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (dsl-66-59-230-40.static.linkline.com [66.59.230.40]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LK7i1m087355 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:07:45 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ned.freed@mrochek.com) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Received: from dkim-sign.mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MRK2OZYLCW0054JJ@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:07:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01MRJRJAWF0W00004Z@mauve.mrochek.com>; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:07:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01MRK2OMWE5400004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:06:13 -0800 (PST) From: Ned Freed Subject: Re: Proposed agenda for the Sieve WG meeting in Philadelphia In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:25:57 +0000" <47BD7BE5.1000201@isode.com> References: <47BD7BE5.1000201@isode.com> To: Alexey Melnikov DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nowsp; d=mrochek.com; s=mauve; t=1203624462; h=Date: From:Subject:MIME-version:Content-type; b=Hj0gGc7DFYzg/EzgBPg3MHINL V1u+wO4dg1+gr4+WgtJjjIdXDvBpuHlEvMv8AEg++CcIXsicXcL+XWHufRm+g== Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean > Agenda > Document status review ( 5 mins) > Progressing RFC 5228 to Draft Standard ( 5 mins) > Sieve Body IESG comments (draft-ietf-sieve-body-07.txt) (10 mins) > Notify Mailto (draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-06.txt) (20 mins) > Mime Loops (draft-ietf-sieve-mime-loop-04.txt) (20 mins) > Reject/Refuse (draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-06.txt) (10 mins) > Non WG documents: > Sieve METADATA (draft-melnikov-sieve-imapext-metadata-03.txt) (10 mins) > IMAP Sieve (draft-ietf-lemonade-imap-sieve-04.txt) (15 mins) > Notify SIP (draft-melnikov-sieve-notify-sip-message-00.txt) (15 mins) > XML representation for Sieve (draft-freed-sieve-in-xml-00.txt) * ( 5 mins) > Sieve date-time and index (draft-freed-sieve-date-index-07.txt) * ( 5 mins) > Total: 120 mins > ================================= > Items marked with * depend on presence of editors for corresponding > documents. First, I'm unclear on why I need to be present for documents to be discussed. Second, I don't see ihave and environment on the list. Please add them. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 21 14:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1204233368.59319@XEq6To2LXHIWJYmtDuJMvg X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1LLG26V018186 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:16:08 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LKwTWT092714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:58:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1LKwTbA092713; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:58:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LKwRbA092706 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:58:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from alexey.melnikov@isode.com) Received: from [172.16.1.99] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:58:27 +0000 Message-ID: <47BDE5B3.8060402@isode.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:57:23 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Ned Freed CC: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: Proposed agenda for the Sieve WG meeting in Philadelphia References: <47BD7BE5.1000201@isode.com> <01MRK2OMWE5400004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> In-Reply-To: <01MRK2OMWE5400004Z@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Ned Freed wrote: >> Agenda > >> Document status review ( 5 >> mins) >> Progressing RFC 5228 to Draft Standard ( 5 >> mins) >> Sieve Body IESG comments (draft-ietf-sieve-body-07.txt) (10 >> mins) >> Notify Mailto (draft-ietf-sieve-notify-mailto-06.txt) (20 >> mins) >> Mime Loops (draft-ietf-sieve-mime-loop-04.txt) (20 >> mins) >> Reject/Refuse (draft-ietf-sieve-refuse-reject-06.txt) (10 >> mins) > >> Non WG documents: >> Sieve METADATA (draft-melnikov-sieve-imapext-metadata-03.txt) (10 >> mins) >> IMAP Sieve (draft-ietf-lemonade-imap-sieve-04.txt) (15 >> mins) >> Notify SIP (draft-melnikov-sieve-notify-sip-message-00.txt) (15 >> mins) >> XML representation for Sieve (draft-freed-sieve-in-xml-00.txt) * ( 5 >> mins) >> Sieve date-time and index (draft-freed-sieve-date-index-07.txt) * ( 5 >> mins) > >> Total: 120 mins >> ================================= > >> Items marked with * depend on presence of editors for corresponding >> documents. > > First, I'm unclear on why I need to be present for documents to be > discussed. Because I don't know what issues are still open and because you didn't send me any presentations/information about your drafts during recent IETF meetings. So I would need some information from you. > Second, I don't see ihave and environment on the list. Please add them. How much time do you think you need? From owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 22 18:27:03 2008 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on lorien2.mallorn.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20 autolearn=ham version=3.2.3 X-mallorn-MailScanner-Watermark: 1204332584.46957@VkOuK7jLNzO7VXuq5e8Oag X-Envelope-From: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org X-Envelope-To: Return-Path: Received: from lorien.mallorn.com [208.78.102.2] by remote.mallorn.com with POP3 (fetchmail-6.3.8) for (single-drop); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:27:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by lorien2.mallorn.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1N0nYHn024414 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:49:39 -0500 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1N0aD26046835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1N0aD27046834; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:36:13 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1N0aAEx046824 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:36:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wwwrun@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 195883A68FB; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:36:13 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , sieve mailing list , sieve chair Message-Id: <20080223003614.195883A68FB@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:36:14 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: X-mallorn-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-mallorn-MailScanner: Found to be clean Subject: Protocol Action: 'Sieve Notification Mechanism: xmpp' to Proposed Standard The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Sieve Notification Mechanism: xmpp ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Sieve Mail Filtering Language Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Lisa Dusseault and Chris Newman. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-09.txt SIEVE notify extension WG Chairs Write-up for IESG. draft-ietf-sieve-notify-xmpp-05 - Proposed Standard (1.a) Who is the Document Shepherd for this document? Has the Document Shepherd personally reviewed this version of the document and, in particular, does he or she believe this version is ready for forwarding to the IESG for publication? Shepherd: Cyrus Daboo I have personally reviewed this document and believe it ready for submission to the IESG. (1.b) Has the document had adequate review both from key WG members and from key non-WG members? Does the Document Shepherd have any concerns about the depth or breadth of the reviews that have been performed? It has had adequate review from WG members. Not from non-WG members. No concerns with the nature of those reviews. (1.c) Does the Document Shepherd have concerns that the document needs more review from a particular or broader perspective, e.g., security, operational complexity, someone familiar with AAA, internationalization or XML? No. (1.d) Does the Document Shepherd have any specific concerns or issues with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be aware of? For example, perhaps he or she is uncomfortable with certain parts of the document, or has concerns whether there really is a need for it. In any event, if the WG has discussed those issues and has indicated that it still wishes to advance the document, detail those concerns here. Has an IPR disclosure related to this document been filed? If so, please include a reference to the disclosure and summarize the WG discussion and conclusion on this issue. No concerns with this document. (1.e) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? There is strong