ietf-dkim
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [ietf-dkim] draft-otis-mass-reputation-02

2005-09-07 23:09:39

On Sep 7, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote:

Some points:

1) The document is useful as a proof of concept even if it is not
necessary to necessarily define a standard for these things.


I was attempting to make the points clear by expressing them "as if" part of the standard.


2) On per-user certificates I think that the real argument here is that
in the context of spam and phishing the aggregate reputation is much
more interesting than the individual. Distinguishing the behavior of
pbaker(_at_)verisign(_dot_)com from *.verisign.com is not very useful where we are
talking about the decision to deliver or not.


Absolutely. The domain represents a practical and defensible limit for accruing reputations. As said in the draft, DKIM must adopt a defensive strategy. Establishing DoS protections at the HELO is a means to defend resources and establish name-based accrual of reputations. This seems to be a practical solution. Successful DKIM deployment depends upon being able to deal with the current situation confronting email receivers. The concept of mailbox-domain authorization is fundamentally flawed. It is asking the receiver to go well beyond what can be defended by amplifying the impact a miscreant creates.


There are cases where this is relevant but I suggest that these are much less common and likely to be a subset in most organizations. For example
end user keying might be relevant for professionals at their place of
work, I do not see it as being essential for people with a hotmail
address.


It would seem to make sense to use S/MIME or some type of secure document rather than burden the basic email system by attempting to provide user-verification. The opaque-identifier can act as a pseudo- certificate and permit out-of-band verifications that can strengthen the association of the opaque-identifier and the user. After all, any verification method attempted at the MTA is limited by the account authentication for server access.


I think that it is better to make the case for domain based keys in
their own right, it is a very strong one and does not depend on
attacking end user keys. The best way to deploy end user keys is to
begin with domain keys. That allows a thousand or a million users to be
added at a time, not one at a time.


My concerns about considering domain-keys being suitable for user- keys is that DNS and SMTP is likely to suffer a negative impact from this type of over-reach.


3) On the key lengths I think that 1024 is sufficient for transport
keys, in fact it is arguable that 512 is acceptable since the factoring
time is much much longer than the message validity. On the other hand
the effort required to argue for 512 bits is not worth the performance
benefit.


The time to crack a 512 bit key is measured in minutes.

Here is the link for the twirl reference:
http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/~tromer/papers/twirl.pdf


I would however argue for 2048 bits as a minimum for any new end-user
keying scheme and I would want the ability to handle up to 4096 bits.


From what I have read, it seems that 1024 bit keys should be okay for the limited duration that keys should be used for email transit. The use of the expiry feature in DKIM may allow for sloppy practices in that regard however.

-Doug
_______________________________________________
ietf-dkim mailing list
http://dkim.org

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>