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RE: [ietf-dkim] Secrtion 6.3 Comments on draft-ietf-dkim-ssp-requirements-02.txt

2006-10-24 12:48:52

From: Jim Fenton [mailto:fenton(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com] 
If I look at the email and find a satisfactory signature I 
am done. If I don't find any signature at all *or I find only 
a weak signature* I need to look at the policy.
  
I don't see why we need to introduce shades of grey (i.e., 
valid but weak signatures) here.  The verifier is able to 
decide what it considers to be a valid signature.

Your phrasing is equivalent but leads to ambiguity. The purpose of the exercise 
here is to eliminate ambiguity.

A signature is VALID with respect to the Key Record. Every recipient that 
receives the same sequence of bits should have the same exact value for VALID.

A signature is ACCEPTABLE if it is VALID AND the signing algorithm and 
parameters are acceptable. This is a subjective issue and opinions may differ.

I do not see that conflating an objective quantity with a subjective quality 
helps here, on the contrary it introduces shades of grey where they are not 
required.

This problem is in part due to the use of the language 'treat an invalid 
signature as if it was unsigned'. This only holds for base. At the policy level 
there are important distinctions that need to be made between messages that are 
consistent with policy that bear an unverifiable signature and those that are 
consistent with policy and bear unverifiable signatures.


If a 
signature uses an algorithm that the verifier considers to be 
too weak, it should just consider the signature to be 
invalid.  Then the original #11 is sufficient.

That is not a good choice since an invalid signature is by definition not in 
compliance with a certificate policy that says 'every message has a valid 
signature'.


Also I would like to reword 12:

[PROVISIONAL] A domain holder MUST be able to publish a 
Practice which enumerates the acceptable cryptographic 
algorithms for signatures purportedly from that domain. 

To be

12a [PROVISIONAL] A domain holder MUST be able to publish a 
Practice which specifies the acceptable application of 
cryptographic algorithms for signatures purportedly from that domain. 

12b [PROVISIONAL] A domain holder MUST be able to publish a 
Practice which specifies the application of multiple 
signatures with different cryptographic algorithms for 
messages purportedly from that domain. 
  
I disagree with #12 entirely.  This addresses a case where 
there is a signature that references a key record within the 
domain.  There is already a tag/value in the key record to 
specify the algorithm(s) that are associated with the key.  
If there are algorithms that the domain has abandoned using 
because they're too weak, they just don't publish any key 
records for that algorithm.  There's no reason we need to get 
this information from a Practice record.

Your approach is broken.

We are both proposing that the algorithm constraints be applied through key 
records. According to your proposal there is no way for a policy to specify 
which key records must be satisfied.

This means that under yous scheme any signer that publishes a key record for 
DSA-2048 before this algorithm is widely supported will be subject to an 
upgrade attack. The attacker can attach a signature that references the key 
record for DSA 2048 and the majority of recipients will be unable to determine 
that the signature is invalid. This is not a problem for BASE because the 
message is treated as unsigned. It is a problem for POLICY as it is not 
possible to correctly resolve the question of COMPLIANCE. In particular it is 
not possible to resolve the following cases correctly

Case 1: Message has a fraudulent signature for the unsupported algorithm, the 
signer always signs using a supported algorithm -> NOT-COMPLIANT

Case 2: Message has a valid signature for the unsupported algorithm, the signer 
only signs with the unsupported algorithm -> COMPLIANT but UNVERIFIED


The SSP proposal only allows one of the cases to be correctly decided. You can 
solve either one of them correctly by choosing the appropriate default. You 
cannot get both cases right without being able to determine more detail that nt 
current proposal allows.

The correct determination for policy compliance being either COMPLIANT with 
policy or NOT COMPLIANT.


I don't remember all the details, but we discussed whether 
key records should describe the application of multiple 
signatures (other signatures in addition to the one 
referencing the key record).  We decided not to do that, and 
I don't think SSP should be trying to do the same thing again.

NO, the argument was made to punt this to the SSP discussion.

I don't think that either of us wants to reopen this question as an issue for 
base. I raised the issue then and was told I had to wait.

So we have the discussion now.




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