Cc: Keith Moore <moore(_at_)cs(_dot_)utk(_dot_)edu>, ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
From: Keith Moore <moore(_at_)cs(_dot_)utk(_dot_)edu>
To: Vernon Schryver <vjs(_at_)calcite(_dot_)rhyolite(_dot_)com>
...
If that is an issue, it ought to be raised by those who are being
misled, the targets of mail, instead of senders and other third
parties.
it IS being raised by them, for those who are actually able to figure
out what's going on. of course, when the recipient doesn't receive the
mail he's expecting, he has no idea where to look - so he tends to
blame the sender.
Keith Moore is not complaining about mail he has not received because
of the dasterdly misinformation from the RBL. He is either a third
party sender of reject mail that he is certain was wanted by its targets
despite being rejected or he is a fourth party presuming to speak for
the first parties (spam targets) against the second parties (blacklist
providers).
An odd thing about users of DNS blacklists and other filters is that
many users avoid confronting senders of rejected mail. Many users are
happy to let senders assume what the senders want to believe, that the
evil nasty rbl consipracy used lies, bribery, and extortion to force
an ISPs to use a blacklist. Never mind that after being informed of
that evil nexus by senders, most users do nothing but demand even more
filtering. Ignore the fact that blacklists are free or cost money and
are now generally selling points.
Of course popularity in the market is not proof of virtue, but it does
poke holes in the claims of senders of rejected mail about blacklists.
...
whatever. your mail server claims it's forwarding my mail to DCC, and
it's not bulk mail.
The first phrase is true but only of mail sent directly from Keith
Moore to my SMTP server. His second statement is false. Bulk mail
includes any message which has a "a bunch" of copies sent to one or
more mailboxes. All mail sent through non-trivial mailing list
reflectors is bulk. Spam is bulk mail that is unsolicited. "A bunch"
varies depending on whom you ask and when.
Keith Moore has long known that his "courtesy copies" to my mailbox
are unsolicited and unwelcome. They are identical except in headers
to hundreds of copies of the same messages, and so are "bulk." I
tolerate (and sometimes find interesting) the copies of his messages
that arrive through the IETF reflector, but I object to duplicate
copies of flames and insults. If your "a bunch" threshold for "bulk"
is 2, then Keith Moore's attempts to put 2 copies of his messages in
my mailbox are "spam" regardless of the hundreds of copies sent
elsewhere. (Some people say 2 is the right threshold for "bulk", but
I run my DCC client with a threshold of 5. 5 is a common choice for
vanity domains. Choices for real domains range from 20 to 200 as well
as the overflow value of "many.")
Consider "courtesy" copies of mailing list messages and the people who
send them. Many courtesy copies are sent unthinkingly by using a
"reply all" function, but others are intentional. The intentional
copies amount to "microphone queue jumping."
"and the horse you rode in on."
you are misleading people, and you know it.
Notice that he does not specify whom is being misled or the falsehood.
Sheesh!--what would a reasonable person do who knows that one of his
targets doesn't want his "courtesy" copies?
Vernon Schryver vjs(_at_)rhyolite(_dot_)com