Re: Issue: #748: Section 5.4 - Quarterly deposits inappropriate
2004-12-22 08:42:53
The concern (and I think it is minor but not insignificant) is not with
incompatibility.
It is that as currently written, in the case of more IETF earmarked
donation than expected, it is equally consistent with the text that either
1) ISOC maintains their level of general contribution to IETF activities
or
2) ISOC reduces their level of general contribution to IETF activities,
because the money is coming from elsewhere.
We clearly want 1.
Governments lover to do 2. That is the game they play with "lottery money
is only usable for schools" and similar nonsense.
Yours,
Joel
At 10:25 AM 12/22/2004, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
Joel,
Joel M. Halpern wrote:
I think that there is a different side of this.
Suppose that a budget was worked out (as below), with a plan for a
certain expected coverage from ISOC general funds, meeting fees, and
directed donations.
Lets presume the budget includes the plan for building the reserves.
If meeting fees run high, presumably the IAOC and ISOC will negotiate
about how much of that goes into extra IETF reserves, how much goes for
previously unbudgeted but desired IETF activities, and how much goes to
reduce ISOC general fund contribution.
What I wonder about is the case where earmarked donations run higher than
budgeted. If ISOC is allowed to reduce its support from general funds
for the IETF based on that increased earmarked donation, then it tends to
undermine the value of the earmarked donation.
It seems to me that two conclusions follow from this:
1) The budget ought to be built around some assumption (based on
experience) of earmarked donation.
2) But extra earmarked donation should go to either IETF reserves or
other IETF specific activities that were not in the budget.
I'm not clear that anything in the -02 text with the minor proposed
changes to get rid of "quarterly" is incompatible with this.
Brian
Yours,
Joel
At 08:51 AM 12/22/2004, Margaret Wasserman wrote:
Hi Bert,
At 11:13 PM +0100 12/21/04, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote:
May be I need to explain my (personal) thinking.
This is good, because your personal thinking does not match my personal
thinking and perhaps that is why we have been having trouble coming to
wording that seems right to both of us.
In my view, just as an example, if we have this budget:
Revenues: expenses $5M
- meeting fees $ 2M
- earmarked donations: $ 2M
- ISOC budget $ 1M
and at the end of the year it turnes out that we adhered to th $5M spending
and that the meeting fees and earmarked donations are say $ 5M, then I
would hope we can set aside $1 M for reserve funds for possible future
shortfalls and/or disasters.
I'd hope that ISOC would still be willing to allocate $ 1M for IETF
(at least untill we have our defined reserve fund established).
With the same budget numbers, I would, personally, think about it like this:
ISOC has agreed to cover a $5M budget. The IASA is only anticipating
$2M in meeting revenue. This means that ISOC needs to raise funds (in
one form or another) to cover $3M worth of expenses.
If meeting fees and/or designated donations do cover the full $5M, the
budget is covered. If these revenue sources do not cover the full $5M,
ISOC will need to cover the remaining expenses from non-IASA-specific funds.
I think that you are making a mistake when you consider the "earmarked
donations" and the "ISOC budget" to be two separate revenue streams.
ISOC will have fund raising programs, and _all_ of the donations that
ISOC collects from those programs are ISOC revenue. Some of that
revenue may be earmarked to specific projects (IASA is only one of many
projects that people may choose to fund) and/or collected via
project-specific fund raising efforts, but all of this revenue and all
related expenses are included in the ISOC budget.
I don't know whether or not IETF meeting fees will be included in the
ISOC budget. That will depend on whether we view meeting fees and
expenses as IASA budget items, or whether the meetings are run in such a
way that only the surplus from the meetings shows up on the ISOC/IASA books.
In fact I would rather see a budget:
revenues: expenses
- meeting fees $ 2M allocate to reserve fund $.5M
- earmarked donations: $ 2M normal expenses $4.5M
- ISOC budget $ 1M
And then if meeting fees turn out to generate an extra 1M without extra
cost, then put the extra 1M in the reserve fund so we get to our defined
"reserve" faster.
You still seem to be thinking that there is a goal to create a separate
IASA reserve fund. I don't think that makes sense. The overall ISOC
organization will be more flexible, and more resilient with a single,
larger reserve that can cover the full operation (including IASA) than
it will be if we hold separate "ISOC" and "IASA" reserves.
If the meeting fees and designated donations exceed the IASA budget on
an ongoing basis, we will build-up some IASA-specific funds that could
be used as a first line reserve, but I don't think that should be our
goal, so I don't understand why we would want a budget that tried to
achieve that.
Margaret
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