Georgios,
The maximum packet size (M) sub-parameter is a required element of the traffic
model (TMOD) parameter specified in the QSPEC. TMOD is modeled after the RSVP
Tspec parameter (see RFC 2210 http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2210.txt and RFC
2212 http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2212.txt), which consists of 5
sub-parameters:
rate (r)
bucket size (b)
peak rate (p)
minimum policed unit (m)
maximum packet size (M)
The TMOD parameter is mandatory for the QNI to include in the initiator QSPEC
and mandatory for downstream QNEs to interpret. As such, the TMOD parameter
and M sub-parameter apply to ALL QOSM's, including Y.1541, RMD, etc., and must
be used by them.
As explained in the attached email below, the M sub-parameter was
erroneously removed from the QSPEC in version 5 when it was incorrectly assumed
that automatic discovery of MTU would also apply to M. It does not, MTU and M
are not the same parameter. Fortunately this error was recently brought to our
attention by Al Morton (and earlier by Bernd Schloer).
Therefore M needs to be put back in the QSPEC, as Jukka has correctly agreed.
Thanks,
Jerry
--- On Tue, 12/8/09, Georgios Karagiannis
<karagian(_at_)cs(_dot_)utwente(_dot_)nl> wrote:
From: Georgios Karagiannis <karagian(_at_)cs(_dot_)utwente(_dot_)nl>
Subject: [NSIS] Maximum Packet Size Parameter <M> -- Re: Last Call:
draft-ietf-nsis-qspec (QoS NSLP QSPEC Template) to Informational RFC
To: "Gerald Ash" <gash5107(_at_)yahoo(_dot_)com>, "IETF-Announce"
<ietf-announce(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>, "ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org"
<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>, "nsis(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org"
<nsis(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Date: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 1:50 AM
Hi Jerry
I think that the reason of removing the "Maximum Packet Size [M]
(32-bit unsigned integer)" parameter from the QSPEC specification was
that this parameter is only relevant for some QoS models that are used
on an end-to-end basis, such as Y.1541 QOSM. I would therefore prefer
that this parameter should not be specified in the QSPEC draft.
In my opinion this parameter should be specified as an TMOD extension in
any QoS model that needs it. I believe that Y.1541 QOSM already does
specify the "Maximum Packet Size [M] (32-bit unsigned integer)"
parameter in Section 3.1.
Best regards,
Georgios
On 11/30/2009, "Gerald Ash" <gash5107(_at_)yahoo(_dot_)com> wrote:
All,
Al Morton has recently raised concerns RE taking the Maximum Packet Size <M>
parameter out of the QSPEC document. Based on his comments (given below,
along with other background), it appears that the <M> parameter should be put
back into the QSPEC.
Please comment on whether the <M> parameter should be put back into the QSPEC.
Thanks,
Jerry
Background:
The Maximum Packet Size Parameter <M> was taken out back in July 2005 in QSPEC
version 5, with the following explanation in the change history:
" Version -05:
- discarded QSPEC parameter <M> (Maximum packet size) since MTU
discovery is expected to be handled by procedure currently defined
by PMTUD WG"
Some further explanation for removing the parameter <M> is given in a message
posted by Cornelia Kappler on the IETF web-site at
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nsis/current/msg07923.html:
"AW: [NSIS] smallest path MTU - Maximum Packet Size [M]
To: "ext Bernd Schloer" <bschloer at cs.uni-goettingen.de>, <nsis at ietf.org>
Subject: AW: [NSIS] smallest path MTU - Maximum Packet Size [M]
From: "Kappler, Cornelia" <cornelia.kappler at nsn.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 09:53:50 +0200
Cc:
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Thread-index: AceiOM3OwdCeaEOuS267eWNZJzBL6QB6Qufg
Thread-topic: [NSIS] smallest path MTU - Maximum Packet Size [M]
Hi all,
at the Interim meeting in May 2005 we decided to drop the MTU, see
http://www.ietf-nsis.org/nsis/Munich_Interim_Meeting/MeetingMinutes.html
Cornelia
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: ext Bernd Schloer [mailto:bschloer at cs.uni-goettingen.de]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. Mai 2007 23:31
An: nsis at ietf.org
Betreff: [NSIS] smallest path MTU - Maximum Packet Size [M]
Hi,
in version 13 of the QSPEC-draft the Maximum Packet Size [M]
was removed from the
TMOD parameter (former Traffic parameter).
RFC2211 mentions, that links are not permitted to fragment
packets which receive
the controlled-load service and packets larger than the MTU
of the link are treated
as non-conformant to the TSPEC.
What was the reason to omit this parameter?
Best regards,
Bernd"
Hannes Tschofenig kindly provided links to the Munich Interim Meeting Minutes
at
http://www.tschofenig.priv.at/nsis/munich/MeetingMinutes.html
It appears that the discussion of MTU discovery somehow led to a conclusion
that the maximum packet size parameter <M> should be eliminated as well, as
documented in this portion of the minutes:
"A QoS Model for Signaling IntServ Controlled-Load Service with NSIS
===================================================================
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kappler-nsis-qosmodel-controlledload-01.txt
Slides:
http://www.ietf-nsis.org/nsis/Munich_Interim_Meeting/Ctrld_Load_QOSM_Interim_Munich.ppt
Cornelia Kappler presents and she starts with an overview of IntServ.
What is IntServ Controlled-Load service?
-IntServ Controlled Load Service is (in NSIS terms) a QoS Model
-RFC 2210 specifies how to signal for Controled load using RSVP
-This ID specifies how to signal for Controled Load using NSIS
-Controlled-Load Service (RFC 2211)
-Provides approximatively service of an unloaded best-effort network
-QoS parameters signaled are Token Bucket and MTU
-Implemented per "network element", i.e. per-router or per-subnet
Can be used for
Reserving resources per-flow per-router
Admission control at edge of Diffserv domains
Admission control into MPLS clouds
How to signal for Controlled Load service with NSIS
-Role of QNEs
-One or more QNR per "network element"
-Stateless QNEs?
-Provide approximatively service of an uiloaded best-effort network may also
be possible with stateless QNEs
Discussion started about MTU insertion in the QoS NSLP since not all routers
would be supporting the NSIS Qos NSLP it was decided to remove the MTU
discovery from controlled load and Qos-NSLP draft. If required MTU discovery
would be using mechanisms out of scope of NSIS (PMTUD or other)"
Bernd Schloer raised the concern of eliminating <M> in his message referenced
above:
"In version 13 of the QSPEC-draft the Maximum Packet Size [M] was removed from
the TMOD parameter (former Traffic parameter).
RFC2211 mentions, that links are not permitted to fragment packets which
receive the controlled-load service and packets larger than the MTU of the
link are treated as non-conformant to the TSPEC.
What was the reason to omit this parameter?"
Al Morton raised the same and additional concerns in a recent discussion:
"It seems to me that several points were missed
by citing the Packetization Layer Path MTU Discovery (PLPMTUD)
[note: see RFC 4821 http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4821.txt]
as a replacement for specifying M, Max Pkt size:
- only the sending end-point will store what PLPMTUD discovers,
intermediate points where shaping or policing reside will not
know the Max pkt size the sender intends to use.
- the Max packet size that a sender uses may be much less than MTU,
VoIP is the most obvious example.
Or, it wasn't understood that M was a critical part of the peak
rate definition. From RFC 2212:
The peak rate, p, is measured in bytes of IP datagrams per second and
has the same range and suggested representation as the bucket rate.
The peak rate is the maximum rate at which the source and any
reshaping points (reshaping points are defined below) may inject
bursts of traffic into the network. More precisely, it is a
requirement that for all time periods the amount of data sent cannot
exceed M+pT where M is the maximum datagram size and T is the length
of the time period.
Note that parameter M is part of the RFC 2212 TSPEC, and M is apparently
different from the MTU:
Links are not permitted to fragment datagrams as part of guaranteed
service. Datagrams larger than the MTU of the link MUST be policed
as non-conformant which means that they will be policed according to
the rules described in the Policing section below."
It seems that Bernd and Al have raised valid concerns: discovery of MTU does
not eliminate the need to specify <M> in the TMOD parameter. It appears that
the <M> parameter should be put back in the QSPEC. It should not be a big
issue since <M> was already there in the QSPEC up through version 4 (see
http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-ietf-nsis-qspec-04.txt).
--- On Wed, 11/11/09, The IESG <iesg-secretary(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org> wrote:
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Subject: [NSIS] Last Call: draft-ietf-nsis-qspec (QoS NSLP QSPEC Template) to
Informational RFC
To: "IETF-Announce" <ietf-announce(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Cc: nsis(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 4:09 AM
The IESG has received a request from the Next Steps in Signaling WG
(nsis) to consider the following document:
- 'QoS NSLP QSPEC Template '
<draft-ietf-nsis-qspec-22.txt> as an Informational RFC
The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org mailing lists by 2009-11-25. Exceptionally,
comments may be sent to iesg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org instead. In either case,
please
retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
The file can be obtained via
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-qspec-22.txt
IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=12323&rfc_flag=0
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