In the IETF meta-discussions on the idea of discussing IPR are more liable to
become ratholes than the IPR discussion itself.
Even worse is the meta-meta discussion on whether to restrict ourselves to
using ASCII in the meta-discussion :)
IPR SHOULD be discussed by the WG, and this discussion is especially
appropriate during the LC period of a standards track draft
( we asked for a 2nd LC on this draft ) in order to understand any possible
issues before passing on to the IESG.
In some WGs (e.g. codec) IPR issues are more important than others as their
mission is to create technology
which is as IPR-free as possible. In codec's case they have even appointed
someone specifically to check into IPR
(from a technical point of view - to make sure that disclosures have been made
- not to "rule" on IPR).
In PWE there have been a plethora of patents from the start, but everything has
always been disclosed and discussed.
It would be unfortunate for things to become confused due to technical errors
of disclosing with respect to the wrong drafts.
Y(J)S
-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Eastlake [mailto:d3e3e3(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com]
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 21:57
To: Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
Cc: Yaakov Stein; mmorrow(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com; lmartini(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com;
tom(_dot_)nadeau(_at_)bt(_dot_)com; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
david(_dot_)i(_dot_)allan(_at_)ericsson(_dot_)com; Busschbach, Peter B (Peter);
Secretariat; pwe3(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org;
adrian(_dot_)farrel(_at_)huawei(_dot_)com;
IETF(_at_)core3(_dot_)amsl(_dot_)com;
andrew(_dot_)g(_dot_)malis(_at_)verizon(_dot_)com; stbryant(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com
Subject: Re: [PWE3] Posting of IPR Disclosure related to Cisco's Statement of
IPR relating to draft-ietf-pwe3-oam-msg-map-12
There is no such rule in the IETF, although perhaps patent discussions
need some moderation to avoid becoming ratholes. To quote some pieces
of text from RFC 3669 (which I recommend you read in full):
"It's all right, and sometimes beneficial, to discuss IPR claims
and gather information about possible prior art on the [working]
group list.
The results of such discussion can be considered when deciding
whether to develop a technology (but remember that neither the
IETF nor any working group takes a stand on such claims as a body,
and the group is not the best place to get legal advice)."
and
"Working group participants can evaluate IPR claims not only for
their possible validity, but also for the risk of misjudging that
validity."
Donald
=============================
Donald E. Eastlake 3rd
155 Beaver Street
Milford, MA 01757 USA
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)
<steve(_dot_)trowbridge(_at_)alcatel-lucent(_dot_)com> wrote:
Hi all,
In IEEE we are admonished to never discuss the essentiality or validity of
patent claims. I cannot believe this is considered an appropriate discussion
in IETF.
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: pwe3-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
[mailto:pwe3-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of Yaakov Stein
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 1:44 AM
To: mmorrow(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com; lmartini(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com;
tom(_dot_)nadeau(_at_)bt(_dot_)com; Aissaoui, Mustapha (Mustapha);
david(_dot_)i(_dot_)allan(_at_)ericsson(_dot_)com; Busschbach, Peter B (Peter)
Cc: IETF(_at_)core3(_dot_)amsl(_dot_)com; Secretariat;
pwe3(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; adrian(_dot_)farrel(_at_)huawei(_dot_)com;
andrew(_dot_)g(_dot_)malis(_at_)verizon(_dot_)com;
stbryant(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com
Subject: Re: [PWE3] Posting of IPR Disclosure related to Cisco's Statement of
IPR relating to draft-ietf-pwe3-oam-msg-map-12
This disclosure (1311) quotes application US20080089227A1: Protecting
multi-segment pseudowires which may impact draft-ietf-pwe3-redundancy, and
perhaps ICCP, MS-PW architecture, and MS-PW setup.
There is no apparent connection with oam-msg-map - in fact the claims stress
that the triggers are failures of PSN elements (e.g. S-PEs) and are NOT from
the ACs, making any connection untenable.
A previous disclosure by the same company (863) refers to
20080285466 : Interworking between MPLS/IP and Ethernet OAM mechanisms
which may impact mpls-eth-oam-iwk, but not oam-msg-map, unless one interprets
the first claim and its dependents much more broadly than supported by the
background and description.
Can someone from the company claiming this IPR fix the information in these
disclosures ?
At very least that company is required to disclose IPR is holds with respect
to the appropriate drafts (unless it is willing to risk forfeiting its rights
with respect to these ...).
However, with respect to oam-msg-map I would like to request that it consider
removing inappropriate disclosures.
Of course, if after consideration it believes that these disclosures ARE
appropriate, I would love to hear the reasoning.
Y(J)S
-----Original Message-----
From: IETF Secretariat [mailto:ietf-ipr(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 18:46
To: mmorrow(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com; Yaakov Stein;
lmartini(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com; tom(_dot_)nadeau(_at_)bt(_dot_)com;
Mustapha(_dot_)aissaoui(_at_)Alcatel-lucent(_dot_)com;
david(_dot_)i(_dot_)allan(_at_)ericsson(_dot_)com;
busschbach(_at_)alcatel-lucent(_dot_)com
Cc: stbryant(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com; adrian(_dot_)farrel(_at_)huawei(_dot_)com;
pwe3(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; andrew(_dot_)g(_dot_)malis(_at_)verizon(_dot_)com;
matthew(_dot_)bocci(_at_)alcatel-lucent(_dot_)com;
ipr-announce(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Posting of IPR Disclosure related to Cisco's Statement of IPR
relating to draft-ietf-pwe3-oam-msg-map-12
Dear Monique Morrow, Yaakov Stein, Luca Martini, Thomas Nadeau, Mustapha
Aissaoui, David Allan, Peter Busschbach:
An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Pseudowire
(PW) OAM Message Mapping" (draft-ietf-pwe3-oam-msg-map) was submitted to the
IETF Secretariat on 2010-04-07 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of
Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures"
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1311/). The title of the IPR disclosure is
"Cisco's Statement of IPR relating to draft-ietf-pwe3-oam-msg-map-12."
The IETF Secretariat
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