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Re: Gen-ART LC Review of draft-ietf-eai-simpledowngrade-07

2012-09-20 14:58:58
Thanks for the response--comments inline:

On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:18 AM, Arnt Gulbrandsen 
<arnt(_at_)gulbrandsen(_dot_)priv(_dot_)no> wrote:

On 09/19/2012 04:24 AM, Ben Campbell wrote:
I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on
Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at

<http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>  .

Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments
you may receive.

Document:  draft-ietf-eai-simpledowngrade-07
Reviewer: Ben Campbell
Review Date: 2012-09-18
IETF LC End Date: 2012-09-20

Summary: This draft is mostly on the right track, but has open issues

Major issues:

-- I'm concerned about the security considerations related to having a mail 
drop modify a potentially signed message.
...

Hm, sounds like a misunderstanding. Did you understand that the modification 
happens in RAM, and that the message stored unmodified and has the valid 
signature? If not I suppose extra verbiage is needed.

I make no assumptions about whether the modification is persistent in the mail 
drop. The message as delivered to the client, which is where the end user 
actually reads it, is modified.


The signature issue has been discussed. The answer is more or less: The WG 
expects EAI users to use EAI-capable software, and to accept partial failure 
when using software that cannot be updated.

My point is that I believe the potential issues caused by the modification of 
signed content should be covered in more depth. You mention the problem, which 
is good.  I'm not proposing normative guidance, but there's a lot an 
implementor and deployer should think before breaking signed content. 

For example, could they strip signatures? Put in warnings that explain the 
reason a signature cannot be verified? Verify locally and resign the modified 
version (along with a statement about what happened)? Ignore the problem 
because their users never do S/MIME anyway? Even if the draft offers no 
answers, I think it needs to offer more guidance about issues that the reader 
needs to think about and draw conclusions from.


This entire draft is draft is about damage limitation when an EAI user uses 
EAI-ignorant software (e.g. your phone, if you do your main mail handling on 
a computer but occasionally look using the phone). That there will be damage 
is expected and accepted. IMO it's unavoidable. The WG tries to ensure that 
the damage is not permanent (in the same example: so you can still read the 
mail, properly signed and addressed, on your computer).

FWIW, I mangled a message by hand to see what happened to a signature, and 
got an angry-looking complaint above the body text. Or maybe it was above the 
headers. Whatever.

Minor Issues:

-- It's not clear to me why this is standards track rather than 
informational.

I don't remember. Perhaps because it needs to update 3501.

Ah, that's a better explanation than I've seen so far :-)


-- section 3, 2nd paragraph:

Are there any limits on how much the size can differ from the actual 
delivered message? Can it be larger? Smaller? It's worth commenting on 
whether this could cause errors in the client. (e.g. Improper memory 
allocation)

An input message can be constructed to make the difference arbitrarily large. 
For instance, just add an attachment with a suggested filename of a million 
unicode snowmen, and the surrogate message will be several megabyte smaller 
than the original. Or if you know that the target server uses a long 
surrogate address format, add a million short Cc addresses and the surrogate 
will be blown up by a million long CC addresses.

I doubt that this is exploitable. You can confuse or irritate the user by 
making the client say "downloading 1.2MB" when the size before download was 
reported as 42kb, that's all. I wish all my problems were as small.

I'll add a comment and a reminder that the actual size is supplied along with 
the literal during download.


Thanks--It's been a while since I worried about IMAP protocol details. The fact 
that the actual downloaded content size is expressed elsewhere makes this less 
of a concern. (And adding the proposed reminder would help other's avoid the 
same mistake :-)  )

-- "Open Issues" section: "Should Kazunori Fujiwara’s downgrade document 
also mention DOWNGRADED?"

Good question. It seems like they should be consistent on things like this. 
(This is really more a comment on that draft than this one.)

I think I've made up my mind that in this case it doesn't matter. Kazunori's 
task is complex reversible downgrade and has the Downgraded-* header fields, 
why then bother with the DOWNGRADED response code? But it's not my decision.

Do you consider the open issue called out in the draft to be resolved, then?

OTOH, this highlights a concern I didn't think about when reviewing the other 
draft, which is a user agent unaware of the UTF8 updates is unlikely to present 
new, unknown headers to the end user. I don't know if the error code is more 
likely to be presented. (I will comment on that in the thread specific to that 
draft.)



-- Abstract should mention that this updates 3501

Really? A detail of this document updates a minor detail of that document, 
that's hardly what I would expect to see in a single-paragraph summary.

I know someone who likes to repeat the Subject in the first line of the email 
body text. Just in case I didn't see it the first time, I suppose.

It's standard RFC editor procedure. The abstract is often presented separate 
from the rest of the draft, and the draft headers.

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