Irrepressible
Yours Irrespectively,
John
From: ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
[mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of Abdussalam Baryun
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:19 AM
To: Michael Richardson
Cc: ietf; tools-discuss(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] independant submissions that update standards
track, and datatracker
Hi Michael,
I agree that it should appear in related WG's field or area. I see in IETF we
have WGs documents list but not areas' documents list, so the individual
document may not be found or discovered. I think any document of IETF should be
listed in its field area or related charter, but it seems like the culture of
IETF focusing on groups work not on the IETF documents. For example, when I
first joined MANET WG I thought that RFC3753 is related because it is IETF, but
in one discussion one participant did not accept to use that document even
though it was related. Fuethermore, some WGs don't comment on related documents
to their WG, which I think this should change in future IETF culture (e.g.
there was one individual doc that was requested by AD to comment on by the WG
but no respond).
Therefore, IMHO, the IETF is divided by groups with different point of
views/documents and they force their WG Adopted-Work to list documents (not all
related to Group-Charters), but it seems that managemnet does not see that
there is a division in knowledge or in outputs of the IETF, which a new comer
may see it clearly. I recommend to focus/list documents related to Charter, not
related to WG adoptions, because all IETF document are examined by IESG.
AB
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Michael Richardson
<mcr+ietf(_at_)sandelman(_dot_)ca<mailto:mcr+ietf(_at_)sandelman(_dot_)ca>>
wrote:
This morning I had reason to re-read parts of RFC3777, and anything
that updated it. I find the datatracker WG interface to really be
useful, and so I visited http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nomcom/
first. I guess I could have instead gone to:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc3777
but frankly, I'm often bad with numbers, especially when they repeat...
(3777? 3737? 3733?)
While http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nomcom/ lists RFC3777, and
in that line, it lists the things that update it, it doesn't actually list
the other documents. Thinking this was an error, I asked, and Cindy kindly
explained:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/nomcom/ lists the documents that were
published by the NOMCOM Working Group. The NOMCOM Working Group was
open from 2002-2004, and only produced one RFC, which is RFC 3777.
The RFCs that update 3777 were all produced by individuals (that is,
outside of the NOMCOM Working Group), and so aren't listed individually
on the NOMCOM Working Group documents page.
I wonder about this as a policy.
Seeing the titles of those documents would have helped me find what I wanted
quickly (RFC5680 it was)...
While I think that individual submissions that are not the result of
consensus do not belong on a WG page. But, if the document was the result of
consensus, but did not occur in a WG because the WG had closed, I think that
perhaps it should appear there anyway.
--
Michael Richardson
<mcr+IETF(_at_)sandelman(_dot_)ca<mailto:mcr%2BIETF(_at_)sandelman(_dot_)ca>>,
Sandelman Software Works
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