ietf
[Top] [All Lists]

Two official work languages is smarter (was Re: IETF working language

2014-03-09 11:38:23
Bonjour,

I agree with Mohammed totally. I recommend allowing another second official
language will solve a lot of native English speakers problems.

Comments below

AB

On Sunday, March 9, 2014, Ted Lemon wrote:

On Mar 8, 2014, at 8:02 PM, mohammed serrhini 
<serrhini(_at_)mail(_dot_)ru<javascript:;>>
wrote:
I think their exclusion is not fair
the effort must be made by the latter because he has put himself in
the skin of the other
and must to ask him self , what happen in the case if native language is
the official language IETF is not English

One of the frustrations of life is that even if we recognize that
something is unfair, there may be limited possibilities for addressing the
unfairness.   It was once the case that French was the language of
diplomacy, and an attempt was made to formulate an artificial language,
Esperanto, for use by diplomats as a new "lingua franca."


Not only diplomats but the French language is more sensitive and polite
language which has nice feelings.


For better or for worse, the Internet broke that process (I don't think
there was much hope for Esperanto anyway).   So what do we do now?


The answer to your Qs is let us Speak French, and write and read in French.
Programming in one language is poor programming, IETF SHOULD become smarter
and it SHOULD be able to write and read in French.


 Try to revive Esperanto as a language for expressing standards?   Choose
a different language, so as to change the lucky recipient of privilege?

Thanks


I can't speak for other IETFers, but I am keenly aware of the unfairness
of the current situation.   But the only thing I know how to do to fix it
is to help people for whom english is not their first language to
participate in english anyway.


That is one side solving, so you help non native speakers what about
helping native English speakers that complaint a lot about English grammar
and non sense of IETF participants that speak IETF language.

IETF language is using English right but it is not the same way Americans
use it but it is the worlds use of English.


There is a lot of interest within the IETF in doing this--it's not just me.


I add to your interest. There were a great person I meat in IETF that is
volunteering translation to French language.


If you have ideas for how to change this, please share them with us.


I always do share my ideas but some native English readers use their
receiving problem to put down ideas just because of few grammar mistakes.


But the mere fact that I as a native english speaker happen to be
privileged at the moment is a fact with which I am already painfully
familiar (although no doubt much less painfully than the non-native english
speakers).

If other IETFers are not aware of this, it would be good if they could
wake up to it.   I would certainly advise native-english-speaking IETFers
to really exercise patience when communicating with non-native speakers,
keeping in mind exactly what you, Mohammed, have said: that the situation
is unfair, and it is incumbent on those of us in the privileged position to
do our best to help those who are not.


I said many times that IETF needs to solve the problem and happy to get
support.



But is that all we can do?   And if we do it to the best of our ability,
will it be enough?


No, we need another official language to give more freedom. It will make
native English readers more respecting to whom chosen their language in
future work or discussion. Usually when I discuss in IETF my target readers
are European participants first and then all other regions.


And, I hate to say it, given that not everybody will see it the way you do
or the way I do, what else can we do?

Do French language makes us better communicators and better programmers
with a new language.

AB