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CRLs: COST-PEM Solutions

1993-09-20 04:02:00



Dear Mr. Jueneman:

Your  recent  letter  to PEM-DEV concerning CRL solutions in
current PEM RFCs was music for my ears and my  heart.   Just
to remind you: COST International Corporation has posted our
PCA PEM Policy in January 1993.  It is available on-line and
I  would  suggest  you  to retrieve it and read it again, by
sending the E-mail letter to our COST-PEM PCA server:

   To: cost-pem(_at_)cost(_dot_)dsv(_dot_)su(_dot_)se
   Subject: PEM Policy Request

The policy definitely needs refinments (suggested by mr.  R.
Shirey),  what  we will do soon, but one small section of it
DOES SAY:

"  ...   Contrary  to  the PEM RFCs specifications, the CRLs
WILL NOT BE DISTRIBUTED through the hierarchy.  They will be
kept by CAs as the local CRL database.   The  CRLs  will  be
used   TO   REPLY  TO  USER  REQUESTS  for  distribution  or
verification of particular certificates.

The  use  of  the CRLs will be based on various types of PEM
letters, those defined by the RFC  1424  document  and  some
ADDITIONAL  LETTERS,  needed  to  support  all  types of CRL
management functions. ... "


Based  on  that  quote  I was bitterly attacked by gentlemen
from the BBN who gave me "the  lecture"  that  if  we  don't
implement CRLs exactly as described in RFCs, then 

   (a) our COST-PEM will not function properly,
       will not be interoperable with other PEM
       implementations, and
   (b) we are not qualified for PEM discussions, since
       we in fact didn't understand the essence of PEM !

That was all the reaction to my "mild" statement that in our
current  COST-PEM version we didn't implement CRLs since "we
feel that they are not well worked out".  In fact,  I  agree
with  your opinion that "current CRL system is a snakepit of
problems masquerading as solutions" and "current system is a
bit clumsy" is really an understatement.

(I  appologize to all of you reading this letter for all the
discussion above, but I just have  to  recover  some  of  my
"burns" from various BBN flamethrowers).


And  now  let  me turn to a more constructive discussion, to
some suggestions and to potential solutions for some of  the
problems   that  you  raised.   As  I  said,  I  agree  with
everything what you said about the  requirements  for  CRLs,
user (sender and receiver) expectations and all the problems
in  the  current  PEM  version.  But I don't agree with your
proposed  solution:  the   DISTRIBUTION   OF   NONREVOCATION
STATEMENTS.   With  some simple analysis it is not difficult
to conclude not only  that  your  solution  of  distributing
statements of nonrevocation is not feasible, but that indeed
causes all the problems and questions you asked yourself.

My proposal is exactly as quoted from our PCA policy:

"  ...   Contrary  to  the PEM RFCs specifications, the CRLs
WILL NOT BE DISTRIBUTED through the hierarchy.  They will be
kept by CAs as the local CRL database.   The  CRLs  will  be
used   TO   REPLY  TO  USER  REQUESTS  for  DISTRIBUTION  or
VERIFICATION of particular certificates. ... "

How  this in fact suppose to function, you may see in detail
from our  COST-PEM  Electronic  Presentation  (if  you  have
retrieved  it).   I  appologize,  but I think that your main
"mistake" is that you accepted the proposal of the RFCs that
CAs send and archive their CRLs to their PCAs.   In  current
RFCs  solutions,  PCAs are in fact the godfathers of the PEM
(and therefore CRL) system.  In practice, we are sure,  that
it won't be so.  

We  believe  that THE MAIN SUBJECTS FOR CERTIFICATES AND CRL
MANAGEMENT WILL BE THOSE WHO  ISSUE  THEM  AND  WHO  MAY  BE
AFFECTED  BY  THEIR  MISSUSE.   These  are presumably banks,
business  companies,  hospitals,  etc.,  i.e.   in  the  PEM
terminology:  the  lowest  (or  close  to  the bottom of the
hierarchy) CAs.  You may call this "inverted" PEM model.

Let  me give you one small example: COST runs PCA today.  We
sell CA software to some Corporation, they  establish  their
top level CA, signed by us.  After that, they establish many
companies'  CAs,  signed  by  the  top level CA, and further
establish branch offices  CAs,  finally,  say,  Departmental
CAs,  presumably  to  sign users' (human) certificates.  The
lowest, human certificates will  be  issued  to  persons  as
"Financial  Director" and if his/her certificate (or private
component) is missused, THAT DEPARTMENT  (AND  NOBODY  ELSE)
WILL  HAVE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES.  So, what do we (as PCA far
"above" that Department) have to do with the  responsibility
of  their  certificate management and how can we (by keeping
CRLs) guarantee to ALL their customers that each certificate
of that Department is still valid.  (Nonsense !).  (How  can
Patent  and  Registration Office, who register new companies
in Sweden, be responsible  for  invalid  order  of  Ericsson
Corporation,  Radio  Systems  Company,  Department  for Loud
Speakers, mr.  X, financial officer of that Department !)

So,  when  you  as the receiver receive the signed PEM order
from someone (claiming  the  authority  on  behalf  of  some
Company-Department),  you  will  "ask"  immediately,  before
accepting the order as  valid,  that  Company's  CA  if  the
sender's   certificate   is  valid.   For  serious  business
transactions you will probably  do  that  for  every  order,
regardless whether you DO have the certificate of the sender
in  your  local  database.  When you want to send (a serious
business ENCRYPTED PEM transaction letter),  you  will  also
retrive  the certificate of that receiver, regardless of the
same certificate sitting in your local database.

In  such  a  way,  if  user's  certificate  is revoked 12:00
o'clock and the remote request comes  12:01,  the  requester
will  always  receive the most current certificate.  In case
that you want to verify today someones PEM letter created  a
week  ago,  you  will send to his/her CA the certificate CRL
request like: "Please send Mr.  so-and-so certificate  which
was  valid on Sept 11th, at 12:05".  In that case the CA may
need the local CRL.

This  "distributed CRLs" solution, I believe, solves many of
your concerns: there will be thousands of small  CRLs,  each
with  the  CA responsible for its own certificates and CRLs,
so that

   (a) network implications may not be so serious,
   (b) If California slides, only 2% of PEM CRLs will dissapear,
   (c) current PEM architecture is perfect, but CRLs 
       solutions and roles of PCAs are not,
   (d) there are not so many eggs in several (PCA)
       baskets.

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that:

   (a) our current implementation of COST-PEM stores CRLs 
       locally at CAs, but mechanisms (PEM letters) are not yet 
       available for their usage,
   (b) the system may be slightly improved with CAs having
       "agreement" with the most frequent customers to distribute
       them immediately revoked certificate notifications,
   (c) the system may be improved by creating "batches" of
       received transactions and then requesting once the valid
       certificate for the whole "batch", 
   (d) CA CRLs may be duplicated at higher level CAs 
       (for reliability, availability, denial of service, etc), 
       as is the case in our current implementation with 
       users' certificates,
   (e) some improvements (modifications) in RFCs are needed,
   (f) usage of smart cards may also improve our solutions.


I  hope that the analysis of our existing PEM PCA policy and
suggested solutions in our COST-PEM Electronic  Presentation
concerning  "distributed  CRL  system"  will bring us all to
some initial agreements, which we  (as  eager  implementors)
would like to implement and test as soon as possible.  

I am convinced that our future practical implementations and
cooperation with many of our current PEM customers and users
will  prove the outlined suggestions feasible and efficient,
especially for serious business electronic transactions  and
I  hope  that  all eventual PEM-DEV comments will help us to
make these solutions even better.

I  have applied with a paper to the Internet Conference (Feb
1994) and  if  accepted  I  will  explain  the  details  and
experiences  with  our PEM solutions and their applicability
for privacy E-mail and electronic business transactions.  


Regards,

Sead Muftic                              Tel: +46-8-16 16 92
COST Computer Security Technologies      Fax: +46-8-739-1839 
Stockholm, Sweden                        E-mail:  
sead(_at_)dsv(_dot_)su(_dot_)se

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