Mike Hammer asked:
The nice thing about codes of ethics is that there are so many to choose
from.
Which one are we supposed to be looking at?
This one from Science Magazine
<http://www.sciencemag.org/site/feature/contribinfo/prep/coi.xhtml> is the one
I suggested in my initial email in this thread:
Authorship Form and Conflict-of-Interest Statement
To meet its responsibility to readers and to the public to provide clear and
unbiased scientific results and analyses, Science believes that manuscripts
(including Brevia, Essays, Perspectives, Policy Forums, Reports, Research
Articles, Reviews, and Viewpoints) should be accompanied by clear disclosures
from all authors of the nature and level of their contribution to the article,
their understanding regarding the obligation to share data and materials, and
any affiliations, funding sources, or financial holdings that might raise
questions about possible sources of bias. Before manuscript acceptance,
therefore, authors will be asked to sign an authorship/conflict-of-interest
form. Specific information will be sent to most authors at the time of
manuscript revision.
<http://www.sciencemag.org/site/feature/contribinfo/prep/coi.pdf> Authorship
Form and Statement of Conflicts of Interest [PDF]
As you say, there are others….
/Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: MH Michael Hammer (5304) [mailto:MHammer(_at_)ag(_dot_)com]
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 10:18 AM
To: lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com; 'IETF'
Subject: RE: Author disclosures and conflict of interest
-----Original Message-----
From: ietf [ <mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
mailto:ietf-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rosen
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 12:52 PM
To: 'IETF'
Subject: RE: Author disclosures and conflict of interest
Phillip Hallam-Baker asked:
So there is only one set of ethical rules for scientists and engineers then?
Of course not. But before you reject the ethical rules proposed by the
National Academies (of Science, Engineering, Medicine, and the
National Research Council), you ought to have a better argument than
"I don't wanna...."
This attitude, unfortunately, diminishes respect for IETF and its standards.
And nothing confirms that disrespect better than the almost complete
silence here whenever topics such as this are brought up. It is as if
IETF standards are generated in an ethical vacuum where "caveat emptor"
prevails.
/Larry
I took the time to look at the website <http://www.onlineethics.org/>
http://www.onlineethics.org/ related to ethics as indicated by the National
Academy of Engineering. I didn't find a code of ethics from the Academy but
instead found links to a whole bunch of other sites -
<http://www.onlineethics.org/Resources/ethcodes/EnglishCodes.aspx>
http://www.onlineethics.org/Resources/ethcodes/EnglishCodes.aspx. The nice
thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. The nice thing
about codes of ethics is that there are so many to choose from. Which one are
we supposed to be looking at?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker [ <mailto:hallam(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com>
mailto:hallam(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com]
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 1:54 PM
To: Lawrence Rosen
Cc: IETF
Subject: Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest
So there is only one set of ethical rules for scientists and engineers then?
Thats news to me.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Lawrence Rosen <
<mailto:lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com> lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com>
wrote:
Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
Like the question 'are you a spy' which they used to ask when
people entered the US, I fail to see how this helps with the
NSA/FSB/PLA/etc
problem.
The question actually is: Do you agree to the ethical rules for
scientists and
engineers?
By the way, those ethical rules require only disclosure, not recusal.
/Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker [ <mailto:hallam(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com>
mailto:hallam(_at_)gmail(_dot_)com]
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 2:05 PM
To: <mailto:lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com> lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List
Subject: Re: Author disclosures and conflict of interest
Like the question 'are you a spy' which they used to ask when people
entered the US, I fail to see how this helps with the NSA/FSB/PLA/etc
problem.
The people who are being paid to subvert the standards aren't going to say.
They might not even know that the objective is subversion.
Like many IETF participants I have substantial financial interests
in several
Internet companies besides my employer. Am I meant to put those in a
blind trust?
And even if I did all that people would still assume that I am
working as an
agent of the New World Order. Though quite how the other folk on the
conference call worked out that the helicopter is black still puzzles me.
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Lawrence Rosen
< <mailto:lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com> lrosen(_at_)rosenlaw(_dot_)com>
wrote:
I’ve been skimming recent threads on this list relating to work
done (or not done) at IETF and was reminded of this from Science Magazine:
Authorship Form and Conflict-of-Interest Statement
To meet its responsibility to readers and to the public to provide
clear and unbiased scientific results and analyses, Science
believes that manuscripts (including Brevia, Essays, Perspectives,
Policy Forums, Reports, Research Articles, Reviews, and Viewpoints)
should be accompanied by clear disclosures from all authors of the
nature and level of their contribution to the article, their
understanding regarding the obligation to share data and materials,
and any affiliations, funding sources, or financial holdings that
might raise questions about possible sources of bias. Before
manuscript acceptance, therefore, authors will be asked to sign an
authorship/conflict-of-interest form. Specific information will be
sent to
most authors at the time of manuscript revision.
Authorship Form and Statement of Conflicts of Interest [PDF]
Part IV regarding “Conflict of Interest” is particularly relevant
to standards organizations such as IETF. Such a disclosure
requirement would further encourage everyone to trust and implement
IETF
specifications.
This document follows the recommendations in On Being a Scientist:
A Guide to Responsible Conduct in Research, The National Academies
Press, Third Edition (2009).
/Larry
Lawrence Rosen
Rosenlaw & Einschlag ( <http://www.rosenlaw.com> www.rosenlaw.com)
3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482
Cell: 707-478-8932 Fax: 707-485-1243
--
Website: <http://hallambaker.com/> http://hallambaker.com/
--
Website: <http://hallambaker.com/> http://hallambaker.com/