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Re: [Asrg] 0. - General - Consent and SoBig

2003-08-24 13:21:15
At 8:54 PM -0500 2003/08/23, gep2(_at_)terabites(_dot_)com wrote:

 Right basic argument, but reaching the wrong conclusion.  Most
 users will leave the default protections in place for most
 senders, only opening it up where needed.

If you can ensure that "default secure" is the required operating mode for all implementers. I don't know whether or not we can make that claim.

 Actually, even if Outlook and IE and Windows were all "secure", I
 think one can fairly argue that there are 'enough' clueness users
 of AOL's insecure client software that there would still be a
 problem.

I used to work at AOL. I am more familiar with their client than I ever wanted to be.

Actually, the AOL client is so simple that it doesn't really understand attachments, and certainly doesn't understand multiple attachments (in that case, the user sees a preview of the first bodypart, and the entire mail message is stored as an "attachment" that must be downloaded to be viewed). It also doesn't understand anything about automatically executing code.

It does now have an embedded HTML engine, but that doesn't allow for automatically connecting to external web servers and downloading additional content.

 I fully agree that Microsoft has done some pretty stupid crap over
 the years, including enabling HTML by default, but a lot of other
 software suppliers aren't a whole lot better.

I'm a pretty big critic of a lot of the incredibly stupid things that AOL has done (just ask Steve Case about the times I have publicly harassed him at company "all hands" meetings), and indeed I feel that they are an "Evil Empire" that is only very slightly better than Microsoft. But this is a case where their stupidity has actually served them reasonably well.

I definitely agree that there are plenty of companies out there that have done things almost as bad, as bad, or even worse than either Microsoft or AOL. The difference is that most of these companies are no longer around, or have since learned their lesson.

 That's the intention for the Secure Computing Initiative, which is what
 Microsoft is calling their development effort.

Uh, no. Microsoft calls their stuff secure when they have some guarantees as to what they can prevent the user from doing.

This is totally unrelated to real computer security, which has more to do with having guarantees as to what the machine is or is not capable of doing, and how malicious programs can be restricted from negatively impacting anything else on the system.

 It wasn't all that long ago that Sendmail (et al) all defaulted to installing
 with open relays and such too, so it's not as if Microsoft is the only guilty
 party in this industry.

No, not the only one. But certainly the biggest. Indeed, bigger than the entire rest of the industry put together. Moreover, they have not learned the lesson (indeed, they show every indication of ensuring that they cannot possibly be forced to learn the lesson) and they continue to do the damn stupidest of things.

--
Brad Knowles, <brad(_dot_)knowles(_at_)skynet(_dot_)be>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+
!w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++)
tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++)

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