and your point is?
Regards
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Markus Stumpf [mailto:maex-lists-spam-ietf-asrg(_at_)Space(_dot_)Net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 2:18 PM
To: Chris
Cc: Markus Stumpf; ASRG
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Re: 6. Proposals - rDNS / MTA MARK
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:05:10PM +1030, Chris wrote:
I think it has been amply shown in the past that any system
that relies on
an ISP to "do the right thing" is destined to fail.
This is also true for everything an end user does. And it is also true
for everything that so called "consultants" do. To cite a customer:
"no our mailserver can't be an open relay. we have just paid
15000 bucks for a firewall and 10000 bucks for a consultant to set
things up".
This is also true for anything programmers do, just look at bugtraq.
ISP's could prevent much of the abuse (not just mail) that
occurs on the net
today with such things as your example above, egress filtering.
but do they?
Enduser could prevent much of the abuse by simply not being so ignorant
and updating their software. Microsoft could prevent much of the abuse
by fixing their broken software. OpenSource programmers could prevent
much of the abuse by learning how to write programs.
I have blocked a customer that relayed viri through our mailserver and
notified him via phone. First he nearly called me names then they tried
to sue us. It's hard to find a judge that isn't ignorant and for whom
sending viri is really something that is evil and not something that
"you must live with".
So a system (whichever) must not rely on the ISP, but (IMHO) is
better if
the ISP is "left out in the cold" if he doesn't conform.
A system (whichever) must not rely on any human without a clue or it
will not work. The best would be if everyone had to pay 10 bucks for
every email that he'd like to send, to a worldwide central authority.
9.90 will go to some human organisations and 0.10 will be used to
make the central authority.
Then after about 6 weeks we can shut down email completely as all will
fall back to send CDs and letters and make phone calls. Shutting down
SMTP and email will then solve the spam problem. Mission accomplished.
Would the web have grown as fast as it did if people were
forced to pay M$
dollars for web servers ?
Would we have so much spammers if email weren't free and cheap?
Would the web be such a mess if HTML would be really complicated?
Would the Internet be so fsck'ed up if everyone would have to do a
really hard exam before getting access and an even harder one before
s/he is allowed to connect a computer to the Internet?
If you don't like your ISP, get a new one. If everyone does it the bad
ISPs will die. BUT: the bad ISPs are cheap, so everyone chooses them and
all cry about how bad the world is. Don't cry, do something about it.
It costs money? Only death is for free - and then it costs life.
\Maex
--
SpaceNet AG | Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 | Fon: +49 (89) 32356-0
Research & Development | D-80807 Muenchen | Fax: +49
(89) 32356-299
"The security, stability and reliability of a computer system is
reciprocally
proportional to the amount of vacuity between the ears of the admin"
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