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Re: [Asrg] 6. Proposals: LMAP - Forwarding Comment and Recommended Changes

2003-12-24 11:26:33
Alan, any thoughts on the
Re: [Asrg] 6. Proposals: LMAP - Forwarding Comment and Recommended Changes
thread? It does seem that some solution to the mail looping possibility that LMAP's current envelope rewriting creates is a must. It seems that when there's envelope rewriting, the return address must be encoded/stored somewhere, and used when there are bounces. ENVID or something like it seems like the right solution. There are umpteen ways the ENVID could be used to confidently ensure that the relay only relays back bounces of emails it has sent. (As a server would be dealing with its own ENVIDs, perhaps the way that this is done need be suggested but not required.)

The usage for ENVID that we are considering would break rules specified in RFC 1891:

(a) Any ENVID parameter included in the MAIL command when a message was
   received, MUST also appear on the MAIL command with which the
   message is relayed, with the same associated esmtp-value.  If no
   ENVID parameter was included in the MAIL command when the message
   was received, the ENVID parameter MUST NOT be supplied when the
   message is relayed.

Relays should be adding ENVID parameters, though they MUST NOT.
In multihop forwards, we would be replacing, not preserving the ENVID.
Careful consideration of the consequences is needed before we break these rules!


On 12/17/2003 2:18 PM, Markus Stumpf sent forth electrons to convey:

...

[W]ithout tracking, return-path rewriting with routing
information may lead to the same problems we had with
    user%destination(_at_)relay
addresses, with the diefference that it now has a form
    user=destination%otheruser(_at_)relay
What are these problems, and will they exist in an LMAP world?
Let me guess: relay gets a bounce to user=destination%otheruser(_at_)relay that isn't really a bounce; it's spam to user(_at_)destination(_dot_) Without tracking, the relay could still only allow bounces that looked like bounces (MDNs or from postmaster/mailer-daemon) but a spec allowing this would still effectively be saying it's OK to run an open bounce relay, which would be bad.

Currently, I can send spam by sending 'from' the target address 'to' an invalid address on a machine that accepts and bounces such email to the target address. However, this is not possible with most machines, which refuse, instead of accept and bounce such email. This is best practice, and increasingly common.

I would like to suggest two alternate solutions that resolve the mail looping possibility. 1)The sending system connects to relaying-lmap-mta and begins sending an email to an address that has forwarding set up to next-mta. relaying-lmap-mta receives the email up to the end-of-data marker, but does not reply immediately. Instead, it initiates relaying of the message to the destination. Only after next-mta accepts the message does relaying-lmap-mta accept the message from the sending system. This solution will not work in the rare situation where relaying-lmap-mta is not continuously connected to the 'net.
However, it works in the vast majority of cases, and will reduce bounces.
Perhaps this should be done, wherever possible, with ENVID as a fallback solution only when relaying-lmap-mta is not connected to the 'net. 2)A second alternate solution would be for the sending system to be told the forwarding address by relaying-lmap-mta (e.g. using EXPN) and send the message directly there iteself, but this would cause privacy and security problems; seems like a nonstarter.





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