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Re: [Asrg] Microsoft takes over British Telecom

2011-10-28 20:40:13
On 28/10/2011 19:28, Douglas Otis wrote:
There are many methods that might be used to authenticate outbound MTAs, such as SMTP Auth. Ideally SMTP would include DANE extensions used in conjunction with Kerberos. If it were not for DKIM ignoring prepended headers, it would have merit as an anti-phishing strategy. Since DKIM does not verify who sent what to whom, it can only identify domains considered "too big to block" as well.

Excuse me for being thick, I'm trying to understand your thoughts.

I can sort of see how you could AUTHENTICATE outbound MTAs, however that's not the problem as far as I can see. You can reliably authenticate an outbound MTA based on its IP address at the moment (although that would probably be less useful than authenticating a 'group' of MTAs based on the owner, eg Yahoo, and will be less useful with IPv6). Some of the technicalities of authentication based on cryptographic means are a bit unclear, but I can see that it could probably be made to work.

However, once you have authenticated the MTA, you then need to decide whether to authorise it,and what to authorise it for. Are you talking about just authorising it to be able to send mail from a particular domain? (If so, I'm not sure how this fixes the 'forwarding problem'), or authorising it be able to send mail to me at all? (in which case, who would decide on that authorisation?)

(AFAICS Something like SRS should probably be able to fix the forwarding problem if the rest of the system is setup correctly)

You say "Ideally SMTP would include DANE extensions used in conjunction with Kerberos" - now, I'm not very familiar with DANE or Kerberos at the moment, but I think DANE lets you associate a certificate with a domain name using DNS - yes?. Since it wouldn't be possible for a sending MTA to authenticate using such a certificate based on the sender's email domain, I presume you mean it will use the certificate based on the MTA's reverse DNS entry? So, how would that link the sending MTA with the sender's email address? And would Kerberos need a separate server? If so, where would that be, the sending or receiving end? (I'm not sure I like the idea of having to use Kerberos)

If you are just going to authenticate based on the MTA's reverse DNS, then why not just mandate TLS and authenticate the client certificate using DANE?

Could you not change SMTP to go something like:
EHLO sender
220 ENVSIGN CHALLENGE=RandomText

MAIL FROM: <sender(_at_)domain(_dot_)com>
220 OK
RCPT TO: <rcpt1(_at_)user(_dot_)com>
220 OK
RCPT TO:<rcpt2(_at_)user2(_dot_)com>
220 OK
ENVSIGN: <PKI signature of RandomText+sender(_at_)domain(_dot_)com+rcpt1(_at_)user(_dot_)com+rcpt2(_at_)user2(_dot_)com>
220 OK

The sender signs the envelope data using the private key; the public key is exposed using DNS or something (DANE?) . Kerberus isn't needed, and the sending MTA can send from multiple different domains in a single session.

(Still doesn't solve forwarding without return path rewriting, or the general authorisation problem, but authenticates the sender MTA effectively, AFAICS)






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