ietf-dkim
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [ietf-dkim] Purpose and sequencefor DKIM specification and deployment

2005-08-29 22:50:45
william(at)elan.net wrote:


On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Scott Kitterman wrote:

I know that authentic and authorize are specific terms of art and I'm trying to understand where DKIM stands in relation to them.

I have been struggling with the use of "authenticate" and "authorize" ever since I started working on IIM. I had a different notion there -- that one authenticated the message (with the help of the included key) and then checked the authorization of the private key holder to send mail. But that taxonomy doesn't really help here.

I have often thought that we need to invent or appropriate other words to describe what we're doing here because "authenticate" is usually applied to a human, not a message. Any ideas?


DKIM-SSP attempts to at least partially fill that gap.  Is that right?


Despite what some people say, I don't see how DKIM-SSP along will
seriously change this. What policy record can do is to help find those
who are definitely NOT authorized (just like with SPF) with assumption being that the rest are - which is not entirely true. What you still need is to have record indicating that the server that did the signing also authenticated the user and then you have some form of authorization (otherwise you could have different user from the same domain using somebody else's identity within same domain for example).

Publication by the signing domain that they did this or that generally aren't useful -- they will publish whatever gets their messages through most successfully. Besides, we're focusing on situations where misuse of identity might be abused; a lot of domains (particularly small ones) don't need to worry about that, so why make them do authenticated submission?


That is really not all that is missing, because once you have the identity
you still don't know who the user is authorized to be in the email system
(i.e. is the identity supposed to be associated with Sender, From header
field or something else) and its just something "up in the air" for some other system to pick up and compare against the actual email message in some undefined way.

Other than checking to see whether the signature identity is associated with the originator address, I don't know how useful it is to know what the role of the signer is -- I mean, does it really matter whether the signer was a mailing list, or some address that appears in a Resent-From: header? I don't think that would affect a recipient's decision a bit; what would matter to me is whether, for example, the message was signed for the identity ietf-dkim-bounces(_at_)mipassoc(_dot_)org, not whether that also happened to match up with some message header. In other words, who signs is more important than what role they say they're playing.

-Jim
_______________________________________________
ietf-dkim mailing list
http://dkim.org

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>