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RE: [ietf-dkim] Threats Issue - Large DNS records make servers targets for spoofed source amplification attacks abuse

2006-02-28 07:16:34

From: william(at)elan.net [mailto:william(_at_)elan(_dot_)net] 

The only solution to this sort of thing is going to be to 
find a way 
of suppressing DDoS type traffic, in particular spoofed 
source address 
packets. This is not very hard for ISPs to do, if a machine is 
generating reams of spoofed source address data then it has been 
botted and should be either refused service or moved to an 
isolation network.

You're obviously not an operations guy when you say its easy. 

Compared to the problem of dealing with spoofed source address traffic
at the other end it is easy.

The spoofing issue is nothing new (its decades old), but it 
obviously has not been solved. There are some applications 
and sites that depend on being able to have their upstreams 
accept packets from non-local nets (I can find and direct you 
to nanog posts that described that)

There are people who think they need to do such things, such people tend
to be wrong with remarkable frequency. 

There is no excuse for a residential broadband ISP not performing source
address filtering on the traffic coming of the cable or ADSL hookup,
NONE. 

Combining network and Internetwork functions is bad security policy and
probably bad network ops. It is certainly legit for a subscriber to have
multiple connections to the Internet. That does not mean that they
either need or want the ability to route general traffic.


Note that this arises as an issue only for ICMP and some UDP 
protocols.
With TCP this is not as much a problem because full TCP 
communication would require establishing of a session which 
requires the source to confirm the sequence # sent by the 
destination SYN (read about 3-packet handshake, if you do not 
know). 

You should practice being patronizing more often.

Actually there are people who do TCP spoofing as you are probably aware
from the spam world. This is used to send large volumes of spam 'from'
hijacked dialup machines. The dialup machine only does the SYN part of
the protocol, the bulk of the data is sent from a hijacked broadband
machine.

As of this year miscreants switched to using DNS servers as 

They are professional criminals, not miscreants.

However as I'm pointing out the recursive dns servers is only 
one way to do it which derives from ability to poison them 
and then cause them to reply with large response (so as to 
use them for amplification). If dns server is not recursive, 
but has very large dns record it can also be used for 
amplification (slightly worse amplification factor of 1:20).
The smart way to avoid this becoming an issue is to either 
use TCP or to use UDP protocol with fixed and fairly small 
response packets.

It is not our job to fix the core DNS protocol.

The amplifier attack you describe will worst case cause a doubling in
the data volume and that only if the attack machine is directing traffic
through multiple DNS servers at one time.

This is not a big enough effect to be concerned with.

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