ietf-mxcomp
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Re: Does marid-submitter-02 really make sense?

2004-08-11 08:14:19

"Harry Katz" <hkatz(_at_)exchange(_dot_)microsoft(_dot_)com> writes:
On Monday, August 09, 2004 10:24 AM ned(_dot_)freed(_at_)mrochek(_dot_)com 
wrote:

First, I am not proposing anything here. Not only is 
SUBMITTER not my idea, I have been quite clear that I am 
ambivalent about its inclusion in MARID.

Second, the optimization in case 1 isn't a failure case but a 
success case.
There may be a throughput improvement in some MTAs if the 
check can be done sooner. Mind you, I'm not saying there is 
guaranteed to be such an improvement
- just that it is a possibility. Actual implementation 
experience would be needed to tell for sure.


Ned is exactly correct here.  The purpose of SUBMITTER is to allow early
(i.e. at 2821-time) verification of the sender's identity, namely the
PRA.  At the IETF meetings last week there was some discussion of
whether this would result in bandwidth saving, throughput improvement,
or no benefit at all.  I tend to think there will be modest throughput
improvement, but agree with Ned that we need to verify through testing.

  The issue that I have here is that the optimization is
  misplaced engineering at best, and possibly the victim
  of unintended consequences at worst. The ultimate
  optimization is for spammers to not send _any_ packets at
  all. One thing that we know is that if we close off one
  avenue, spammers will shift their attention to other lines
  of attack. Thus if the base level check prevents forgery,
  they'll switch to a line of attack that doesn't use
  forgery. Creating a lot of infrastructure to optimize for
  a likely deprecated behavior doesn't strike me as an
  especially worthwhile use of engineering resources.

  On the harmful front, I have lingering doubts and worry a
  lot about what the consequences for mischief of
  introducing yet another identity -- and what exactly it
  means. I don't think we should take that lightly; if it
  has utility on its *own* merits, fine, but as currently
  instantiated as an optimization for MARID, it seems rather
  useless since spammers will simply never use this
  extension.
-- 
Michael Thomas  (mike(_at_)mtcc(_dot_)com http://www.mtcc.com/~mike/)