Douglas Otis wrote:
On Tue, 2004-09-07 at 09:38, Yakov Shafranovich wrote:
Tony Finch wrote:
On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Yakov Shafranovich wrote:
Tony Finch wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Jim Lyon wrote:
I continue to disagree. There are too many scenarios where the bounce
address is uncorrelated with the MTA that's delivering a message; this
means that any scheme that attempts to reject mail based on those two
inputs (bounce address and IP addr of sending MTA) will have too many
false rejections.
What makes the PRA different from the bounce address from this point of
view?
The PRA algorithm tries to guess the most recent "Sender" for the message -
i.e. the one that is being used for this SMTP hop. The bounce address on the
other hand originates from the original hop and stays that way throughout
multiple SMTP hops.
This is also true for the PRA, since no existing MTAs add Resent-From:
header fields when alias-forwarding.
I think we are going in circles. Validating the bounce address only
prevents false bounces but allows phishing, validating "Sender" does not
stop phishing but allows bounces plus does not take into account
forwarding, validating the "from" headers stops phishing but allows
bounces. Which one of these do we really want?
Sender-ID is selecting a Mailbox Domain from a series of headers
considered related to the most recent MTA outside of the recipients
administrative region. Sender-ID header selection prioritizes RFC2822
From as _last_ in the selection process. This selection process
attempts to reduce rejection rates, but is no better at stopping
phishing as a result. At least using MAIL FROM, there will be a better
understanding which header is being inspected.
Aren't we basically trying to deduce the "mailbox of the agent
responsible for the actual transmission of the message". Basically you
want to know who was the original agent or "Sender" was that put that
email into the email system. To me it sounds like the original
"purpotable responsible address" is the same as guessing "the agent
responsible for the actual transmission of the message"?
If so, RFC 2822, section 3.6.2, is very clear that the "Sender" field
indicates that. That's step 3 in PRA. However, the same RFC states in
section 3.6.2 "If the originator of the message can be indicated by a
single mailbox and the author and transmitter are identical, the
"Sender:" field SHOULD NOT be used". That's step 4 of PRA. The PRA draft
states explicetely that those 2 steps are taken directly from RFC 2822
(don't see any IPR).
Now for the resent blocks, the same RFC in section 3.6.6 states that the
"Resent-XXX" fields are simply placeholders for previous versions of the
same "Sender" and "From" fields. Therefore, there is a preference for
"Resent-Sender" just like there is a preference for "Sender" described
above. That's why steps 1-2 come before 3-4, and step 1 comes before
step 2 (still no IPR).
Now the interesting part here is deciding how to pick the proper
"Resent" header. The PRA algorithm picks the first "Resent-Sender"
unless there is a "Resent-From" before with "Return-Path" or "Received"
in between. The RFC states that:
A. "Resent fields SHOULD be added to any message that is reintroduced by
a user into the transport system."
B. "A separate set of resent fields SHOULD be added each time this is done."
C. "All of the resent fields corresponding to a particular resending of
the message SHOULD be together."
D. "Each new set of resent fields is prepended to the message; that is,
the most recent set of resent fields appear earlier in the message."
Picking the earliest Resent block is based on #D and B, picking an
earlier "Resent-From" if separated from the other Resent headers is
based on #C (and I still see no IPR).
Yakov