Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i

We have now pushed out a -00 strawman on Argon2 in ID form:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-argon2-00

I'm not happy with the explanation of the H' and G functions, and the
permutation P (from BLAKE2b) and the indexing section are missing.
Reference code in a higher-level language like python would be useful.
If those things, and an ASN.1 schema is added, I believe the document
would be good to go.

We need to have an IETF discussion whether we are interested in the
Argon2d non-side-channel safe variant.  The Argon2 paper implies that
the Argon2i side-channel safe variant is for "dangerous settings" where
you need side-channel safety.  For Internet use I believe we have
already passed the point where we can ignore side-channel concerns,
since they have been used in several successful attacks already.  This
could be resolved in the security considerations, but I'm concerned
about giving people too much rope here.

/Simon

Stephen Farrell <stephen(_dot_)farrell(_at_)cs(_dot_)tcd(_dot_)ie> writes:

> Hiya,
>
> One way to handle this might be to add the winners as
> co-authors on the Internet-draft. In that case, the
> draft boilerplate text says that you're following the IETF
> IPR rules and hence would have filed an IPR declaration
> if one was needed. And if none is needed, we'd be done.
>
> I'm sure we can figure other options but the above would
> be easiest from the IETF point of view.
>
> Cheers,
> S.
>
> On 03/11/15 11:56, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
> > Congratulations btw on winning the competition!
> >
> > Kathleen and Stephen can confirm, but I believe you don't have to do
> > anything in terms of adding any language in this case (no patent
> > issued/sought, patent pending, etc.). When/if the document is adopted by
> > the working group, the chair will request any disclosures.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Alex Biryukov 
> > <alex(_dot_)biryukov(_at_)uni(_dot_)lu> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > We were not intending to patent it, so we can add a sentence about it.
> > > Suggestions of lawyer-happy phrases are welcome.
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe(_at_)cdt(_dot_)org
> > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','joe(_at_)cdt(_dot_)org');>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > At IETF94 one question that came up in trying to move quickly to
> > > > support Argon2 is the potential IPR that might be in Argon2. The code
> > > > available now [1] is CC0 which, AFAICT, doesn't have any patent grant
> > > > or implication for patents, etc., meaning the authors could still
> > > > claim something, precluding it from use without a waiver (or whatever,
> > > > IANAL)
> > > >
> > > > I'll CC the Argon2 authors (on the Argon2 spec [2]) here and see if we
> > > > can clarify any potential IPR and whether that might affect using it
> > > > in the future in OpenPGP.
> > > >
> > > > best, Joe
> > > >
> > > > [1]: https://github.com/p-h-c/phc-winner-argon2
> > > > [2]: https://password-hashing.net/argon2-specs.pdf
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Simon Josefsson 
> > > > <simon(_at_)josefsson(_dot_)org
> > > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','simon(_at_)josefsson(_dot_)org');>> wrote:
> > > > > Den Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:45:44 +0100
> > > > > skrev Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Daniel,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If we introduce this as a normative dependency for OpenPGP, though,
> > > > > > > we might also want to have an IETF RFC for Argon2.  Do you know of
> > > > > > > anyone working on such a draft?
> > > > > > Simon Josefsson has expressed interest in helping with that.
> > > > > > @Simon: are you working on this?
> > > > > I started on an Argon2 draft but after talking to the Argon2 team we
> > > > > decided to wait until Argon2 was finalized.  I suppose now is a good
> > > > > time to resume that work.  I'll put something up on gitlab.com so
> > > > > people can review and help.  If anyone wants to help, please let me
> > > > > know and we'll coordinate something.
> > > > >
> > > > > /Simon
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > openpgp mailing list
> > > > > openpgp(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
> > > > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','openpgp(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org');>
> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> > > > Chief Technologist
> > > > Center for Democracy & Technology
> > > > 1634 I ST NW STE 1100
> > > > Washington DC 20006-4011
> > > > (p) 202-407-8825
> > > > (f) 202-637-0968
> > > > joe(_at_)cdt(_dot_)org 
> > > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','joe(_at_)cdt(_dot_)org');>
> > > > PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
> > > > fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Prof. Dr. Alex Biryukov,
> > > FSTC/CSC, University of Luxembourg,
> > > 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi,
> > > L-1359 Luxembourg-Kirchberg
> > > LUXEMBOURG
> > > Tel:  +352 46 66 44 6793
> > > Fax: +352 46 66 44 5500

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