ietf
[Top] [All Lists]

BOUNCE ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org: Non-member submission from [mose <mose(_at_)mose(_dot_)fr>]

2004-01-05 05:01:05
From owner-ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org Sat Jan 03 07:53:04 2004
Received: from ietf.org ([10.27.2.28])
        by asgard.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.14)
        id 1AclGa-000348-7i
        for ietf(_at_)asgard(_dot_)ietf(_dot_)org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:52:32 
-0500
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1])
        by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA00689
        for <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 07:52:27 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1])
        by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
        id 1AclGW-00034q-00
        for ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:52:28 -0500
Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12)
        id 1AclEg-00031b-00
        for ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:50:35 -0500
Received: from smtp6.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.22.25] helo=mwinf0604.wanadoo.fr)
        by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12)
        id 1AclDD-0002xP-00
        for ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:49:03 -0500
Received: from liber.mose.fr (APh-Aug-108-1-4-148.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr 
[81.248.240.148])
        by mwinf0604.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP
        id DA72128000D7; Sat,  3 Jan 2004 13:48:31 +0100 (CET)
Received: by liber.mose.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000)
        id 9D8B230037; Sat,  3 Jan 2004 13:48:16 +0100 (CET)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:48:16 +0100
From: mose <mose(_at_)mose(_dot_)fr>
To: Paul Robinson <paul(_at_)iconoplex(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk>
Cc: ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org, isdf(_at_)isoc(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [isdf] Re: www.internetforce.org
Message-ID: <20040103124816(_dot_)GQ10070(_at_)mose(_dot_)fr>
Mail-Followup-To: Paul Robinson <paul(_at_)iconoplex(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk>,
        ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org, isdf(_at_)isoc(_dot_)org
References: 
<1072620368(_dot_)2651(_dot_)18(_dot_)camel(_at_)franck-lxnb(_dot_)sopac(_dot_)org(_dot_)fj>
 <3FF037F5(_dot_)2060907(_at_)iconoplex(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <3FF037F5(_dot_)2060907(_at_)iconoplex(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk>
X-OS: Linux Debian
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on 
        ietf-mx.ietf.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60

le Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 02:19:33PM +0000 par Paul Robinson :
Franck Martin wrote:

Who are we to recommend things as Mike Todd suggests?

End-users. We're end-users of the Internet. Everybody who uses it should 
be entitled to join any body that determines it's future, and any body 
that has influence that is free to join therefore has the right to 
recommend actions for it's future. Think of it as an abstract form of 
democracy. I live in the UK and Paliament has every right to pass laws 
because I voted them into that position, and likewise if I want to 
become a politician I can do so and pass my own laws... Same thing here, 
except you actually need a clue to participate in IETF rather than just 
look good kissing babies.


- I have to say something there. 

No internet user is an end-user very long. The broadcast era of massmedia 
is still in people habits but it's from the last century and there is no 
technical reason anymore to limit the decisionnal/informational processes 
to an elit of either good-looking babes either wise diplomed experts.

About politician, I don't vote them because they vote their own laws,
not mine. I don't understand how it would be a solution if I switch
and become politician to vote my own laws. Politics is very cool for
peace in material world because it's a convention to make everybody to 
say 'yes' before knowing what will be decided (notice that the 'no' 
alternative usually requires unusual creative abilities or direct 
exclusion, with various degrees of subtility in the way to exclude).

I think that online it's different. People decide by 'not saying no', as
it's rather pointless to say 'yes' when you are in a consensual situation 
with thousand, millions or more of people it would be very noisy. It's
working like that for more than 30 years now and I think we could learn
from it.

Every standard proposed can be of any quality, if nobody apply them
it's only intellectual research with no societal impact. I take as 
example the ipv6 implementation that we wonder "why we don't have it 
yet" for years, the story of the HTML specifications and the respect
of it.

In such context, a more participative behaviour should be welcome. Elits 
should help and educate rather than keeping the steering so firmly.
RFC aren't they meaning "Request For Comments" ? Why did I never find 
the button "add your comment", yet, on any of them ?


my $cents = 2;
mose






<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>