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Re: [TLS] Last Call: <draft-kanno-tls-camellia-00.txt> (Additionx

2011-03-08 12:08:31
Eric Rescorla wrote:

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Martin Rex <mrex(_at_)sap(_dot_)com> wrote:
Eric Rescorla wrote:

I don't understand this reasoning. Why does the output size of the
pre-truncated PRF
influence the desirable length of the verify_data (provided that the
output size is > than
the length of the verify_data of course).

One of the purposes of a cryptographic hash function is to protect
from collisions (both random and fabricated collisions).

Cutting down the SHA-384 output from 48 to 12 octets significantly impairs
its ability to protect from collisions.  It's comparable to
truncating the SHA-1 output from 20 to 5 octets.

I don't understand this analysis. Consider two ideal PRFs:

* R-160 with a 160-bit output
* R-256 with a  256-bit output

Now, consider the function R-256-Reduced,
which takes the first 160 bits of R-256.
Are you arguing that R-256-Reduced is weaker than R-160? If so, why?

What we're having are the two cases:

  1)  R-160 truncated to 96 bits
  2)  R-256 truncated to 96 bits
  3)  R-160 with full 160-bits


If your primary focus was collision avoidance, then
3) is stronger than 1) and 2) by a huge margin.


There may be reasons why you don't want (3), like an attackers ability
to verify when he guesses keys correctly that are input to the PRF.

When 20/12 is a good truncation ratio for a 160-bit PRF,
then 48/12 looks like a poor truncation ratio for a 384-bit PRF
(and SHA-384 is already a truncated SHA-512 anyway).
Applying the 20/12 tradeoff to R-256 results in approximately (32/20)
and to R-384 results in approximately (48/28) -- with (48/32) probably
sufficiently close.


-Martin
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