RE: Re: [mpls] unresolved technical concerns

Alessandro,

Most of the comments I remember reading were of the form "we don't like MPLS 
OAM because it has 'major unresolved technical concerns' and draft-bhh is *so* 
much better".  I.e., they were neither constructive nor actionable.

Thanks,

John

-----Original Message-----
From: erminio(_dot_)ottone_69(_at_)libero(_dot_)it 
[mailto:erminio(_dot_)ottone_69(_at_)libero(_dot_)it]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:50 PM
To: John E Drake; Luyuan Fang (lufang); Alexander Vainshtein;
D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo; Stewart Bryant (stbryant)
Cc: mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: R: Re: [mpls] unresolved technical concerns

What about going into the mailing list and LS logs and read the
comments
provided by several service providers before asking for them being
repeated
again in a I-D that will fate share with the past comments (i.e.,
ignored)?

The comments have been already made. It is now the duty of the party
which has
so far ignored them to provide an answer.

It is also so easy to keep ingnoring drafts and technical comments and
request
people to continue to produce drafts

----Messaggio originale----
Da: jdrake(_at_)juniper(_dot_)net
Data: 5-ott-2011 23.20
A: "Luyuan Fang (lufang)"<lufang(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>, "Alexander

Vainshtein"<Alexander.
Vainshtein(_at_)ecitele(_dot_)com>, "D'Alessandro Alessandro 
Gerardo"<alessandro.
dalessandro(_at_)telecomitalia(_dot_)it>, "Stewart Bryant
(stbryant)"<stbryant(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com>

Cc: "mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org"<mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>, 
"ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org"<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Ogg: Re: [mpls] unresolved technical concerns

That's because it is *so* much easier to just keep mumbling 'major

unresolved
technical concerns'.  I expect it is something learned in Yoga class.

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:mpls-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On Behalf

Of

Luyuan Fang (lufang)
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 5:11 PM
To: Alexander Vainshtein; D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo; Stewart
Bryant (stbryant)
Cc: mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [mpls] unresolved technical concerns

Yep. We are going in circles again.
We need to see technical details on the issues documented in an I-D

as

Stewart suggested.
Don't remember seeing such document either.

Luyuan

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org 
[mailto:mpls-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org] On

Behalf

Of

Alexander Vainshtein
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 4:18 PM
To: D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo; Stewart Bryant (stbryant)
Cc: ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [mpls] unresolved technical concerns

Dear Alessandro,
Lots  of thanks for a prompt response.

Unfortunately your response does not really help (at least, me) to
identify even a single
specific technical issue. You may attribute it to my faulty

memory,

but I could not remember any. Presenting these cocerns in the form
of an I-D as suggested by Stewart would  be the right first step.


My 2c
Sasha

________________________________________
From: D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo
[alessandro(_dot_)dalessandro(_at_)telecomitalia(_dot_)it]
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 6:54 PM
To: stbryant(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com; Alexander Vainshtein
Cc: adrian(_at_)olddog(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk; mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; 
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: unresolved technical concerns

Dear Stewart, Dear Sasha,
I think there are already enough contributions in that direction I
(with many other experts) contributed to in the form of IETF

mailing

list discussion and ITU-T liaisons. Unfortunately I regret to say

that

some questions for clarification and concerns risen in those

emails

(for sure some of mine) still remain without an answer. At the

same

time, some comments provided by ITU-T liaisons still remain

unresolved.


Best regards,
Alessandro

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-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com]
Inviato: mercoledì 5 ottobre 2011 12:24
A: D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo
Cc: adrian(_at_)olddog(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk; mpls(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org; 
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Oggetto: Re: [mpls] R: FW: Last Call: <draft-sprecher-mpls-tp-oam-
considerations-01.txt> (The Reasons for Selecting a Single

Solution

for

MPLS-TP OAM) to Informational RFC

On 05/10/2011 10:38, D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo wrote:
 > major unresolved technical concerns

Alessandro

Please can I suggest that you write an internet draft detailing

these

"major unresolved technical concerns" so that we can all

understand

them.

Such a draft needs to be technical, and describe the actions that

the

network operator is unable to perform, or the fault cases that

they

are

unable to diagnose using the OAM defined in the IETF RFCs, or late
stage WG drafts.

Alternatively if you are referring to a bug in the MPLS-TP OAM
protocols, you need to tell the community what it is.

I believe that this request has been made  a number of times, in
various forums, and, as far as I know, no document has yet been
produced.

An argument of the form "you must standardize what I want"
will not fly. What is needed is a very clear technical definition

of

the issue(s).

When we have the "major unresolved technical concerns"
on the table, we will be in a position to determine the best
disposition of those issues.

Stewart







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