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RE: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-attack-00 was RE: perens-perpass-appropriate-response-01

2013-12-10 07:45:27
To recognise and choose tradeoffs, a broad engineering perspective is needed. 
My point here is that those with a security focus often simply do not 
recognise, acknowledge or countenance tradeoffs. The goal of perfecting 
security does not allow it.

An example: Try discussing MD5's use in a reliability context fior error 
detection with security types. You'll hear that MD5 is insecure, that it's 
'broken', that it shouldn't be used, and that's that. Which is why the checksum 
text now exists in RFC6151, as a careful rejoinder to that. (Yet oddly you 
don't see anyone complaining about the collisions in CRC32 and the security 
weaknesses of that.... But knowing about Hamming etc is mere engineering, and 
beneath notice.)

Viewing everything through a security lens doomed DTNRG work, and making 
security the ultimate arbiter of any protocol, design, as it was in DTNRG, will 
ultimately destroy any future IETF transport work. The process involved will be 
simply unsurmountable, the arguments unbearable.


Lloyd Wood
http://sat-net.com/L.Wood/dtn


________________________________________
From: Jari Arkko [jari(_dot_)arkko(_at_)piuha(_dot_)net]
Sent: 10 December 2013 12:31
To: Wood L  Dr (Electronic Eng)
Cc: hannes(_dot_)tschofenig(_at_)gmx(_dot_)net; 
stephen(_dot_)farrell(_at_)cs(_dot_)tcd(_dot_)ie; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: [perpass] Commnets on draft-farrell-perpass-attack-00 was RE: 
perens-perpass-appropriate-response-01

Au contraire. I like security. I recognise the need for security, and am glad 
it exists.

I'm just not a big fan of people who demand security where it is not needed, 
and who prioritise security above all other aspects of protocol design, which 
are dismissed as unimportant and are neglected as a result.

Perhaps it might be easier to discuss this if we all recognised that it is a 
question of tradeoffs. (But as Phillip correctly noted, the world changes, 
perceptions changes, new information comes available, and today's tradeoffs may 
be different from yesterdays.)

Jari


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