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Re: Problem with new Note Well

2014-01-23 11:26:09

This new note well is a real problem for me and  I can not register without 
clicking "I agree" to it. It is not consistent with the BCPs. The problem is 
the line that says

        • If you are aware that any contribution (something written, said, or 
discussed in any IETF context) is covered by patents or patent applications, 
you must disclose that fact.

I do not agree to that - I can’t given my NDA with my employer does not allow 
me to disclose confidential information. Yes, I realize there is some weasel 
words near the top that say "Exceptions may apply." but that does not help me. 
When you are testifying in court on patents, credibility is incredibly 
important. You can not have the lawyers on the other side saying that you 
clicked yes I agree to the line above but you did not actually do what that 
lines says. You may think this does to matter but the exact topic of how Cisco 
employees deal with IPR at the IETF is a topic that I have testified on in an 
East Texas court so this really does happen and really does happen to me. It 
may happen to you next and you will be much happier if you say what you mean 
and mean what you say. This new note well fails that test. 

I realize some people would like to change the IETF policy to be that you do 
have to do what that line says but I do not think that is a change the IESG can 
make without IETF updating the BCP or at least having IETF consensus on the 
change. I would respectfully ask the IESG to change this line to something that 
is still brief but that people can agree with it. Simply adding something like 
"or not contribute to the discussion on that contribution" would probably solve 
this problem for me. 

Thank you, 

Cullen

I will note that above line is not consistent with Cisco employment contracts 
and if we can not resolve this I will be asking Cisco legal to inform Cisco 
employees they can not agree with this without violating their employment 
agreement. 



On Jan 23, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Russ Housley <housley(_at_)vigilsec(_dot_)com> 
wrote:

It seems that the shorter one is now being used on the IETF web site:
http://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html


On Jan 8, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Mary Barnes wrote:

Personally, I've never seen significant value in this shorter note well and 
while others have been using this new text for the past few meetings, I've 
stuck to the old.   Now that this is considered the recommended note well 
for chairs to use, I guess I'll use it.  But, I personally think accuracy 
should trump brevity.  I think the "must" in that bullet  ought to at least 
be a should and that adding an "otherwise, one should not contribute to or 
participate in any related IETF activities." would add more value.   

Mary.


On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Bradner, Scott <sob(_at_)harvard(_dot_)edu> 
wrote:
you are correct - we (Barry, the IESG & me) discussed this before the IESG 
approved this text - they felt that
being brief was more important than being fully accurate (or at least that 
is the way I expressed it)

Scott

Scott O Bradner
Senior Technology Consultant

Harvard University Information Technology
Innovation & Architecture
(P) +1 (617) 495 3864
8 Story St, room 5014
Cambridge, MA 02138



On Jan 8, 2014, at 2:13 PM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) 
<fluffy(_at_)cisco(_dot_)com> wrote:



On Dec 16, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Barry Leiba 
<barryleiba(_at_)computer(_dot_)org> wrote:

The IESG has made final edits to the updated Note Well statement, and
it has been officially updated:
http://www.ietf.org/about/note-well.html

I have just uploaded the final versions of the Note Well meeting
slides, attached to the bottom of the WG Chairs wiki:
http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/wgchairs/wiki/WikiStart

Please use this new version now, and please remember that as you
prepare slides for the London meeting.

Barry


The new note well says

      • If you are aware that any contribution (something written, said, 
or discussed in any IETF context) is covered by patents or patent 
applications, you must disclose that fact.

Is that true?  Or is it missing something along the lines of section y of 
BCP 79 such as

  or must not contribute to or participate in IETF activities with
  respect to technologies that he or she reasonably and personally
  knows to be Covered by IPR which he or she will not disclose.

Thanks, Cullen



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