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Re: policy based delegate issuing authority

1995-10-11 13:54:00
Peter, I can't help rising to the bait.

We are seeing here - in practice - that when a security system is deployed for
commerce/payment purposes, its absolutely critical that measures be available 
to>prevent attacks on the trust relations. This is what 1422 minimises.

Well, yes and no. Yes, it tried, and there is no doubt that a workable system 
based on 1422 could be fielded. However, it became painfully obvious that the 
name-subordination rules simple were insufficient to support almost any kind of 
commercial operation.  That's the major reason why X.509 v3 had to be 
introduced, and why MOSS probably won't succeed without adopting v3 as the 
mandatory standard. It seems very unlikely that a major CA will issue v1 certs 
-- there is not a good enough way to control the CA's liability.

On the other hand, the MasterCard SEPP spec is a good example of an 
international CA hierarchy that mandates a particular trust mechanism. Are you 
arguing that adding a PEM-style IPRA would add any significant amount of value? 
You still have the difficulty of distributing the root key using out-of-band 
techniques, and frankly I would trust MasterCard or Visa a LOT more than I 
would trust Jeff Schiller or anyone else in the Internet Society to run a 
top-level CA. (Not that I have anything against Jeff -- he's a spendid fellow. 
But his pockets aren't deep enough, by about 4 orders of magnitude.)

A big issue here is, also, whether the 1421 ENCRYPTED processing rules are
important, also, for commerce/payment based on asymmetric key management.
This is another big difference between MOSS and PEM.

I must have missed that detail. What is your point?


Do you believe RSA/DSA/DH-based commerce/payment systems are viable without
the objectives of RFC 1422, 

Yes, at least as stated.

or the authentication before decryption rule
of 1421/1422?

I'll have to go back and read the spec again. I don't recall that rule, and in 
fact would have thought that it operated the other way around.

On my other points, do you believe a 1422 CA company can really face upto
commercial operating reality without being prepared to enforce its policies,
possibly legally?

Any CA can enforce its policies vis a vis its subscribers via contract and 
threat of suit. This applies in particular to any subordinate CAs that are 
certified, and has nothing to do with how certificates are issued (hardware or 
software). The REAL question is how the CA can prevent relying parties from 
holding the CA liable for accidental mistakes of identification, given the 
rather loose identification systems our society has chosen. That, in my 
opinion, takes carefully worded legal notices that the relying party cannot 
avoid seeing, and is one of the most important reasons I have been arguing for 
the inclusion of such liability limiting language in the certificate itself for 
the last 10 years.


Bob

Robert R. Jueneman
GTE Laboratories
1-617-466-2820 Office
1-508-264-0485 Telecommuting


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