----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Moore" <moore(_at_)cs(_dot_)utk(_dot_)edu>
Subject: Re: Understanding response protocols
It's hardly surprising that your customers who have already become
accustomed to the way your product behaves are annoyed when you change
it. LISTSERV and ListProc users who were used to Reply-To being
set by those servers also tended to think that having lists set
Reply-To was "the right thing".
None of this changes the fact that having lists set Reply-To is less
functional and does harm to the message. All it means is that users
often choose the behavior they have adapted to in their isolated
communities, rather than the behavior that works best overall. More
generally, people tend to keep doing things the same way that they first
learned to do them, even if they find out later that there are better
ways to do that. That's not an argument for propagating bad practice to
new users.
Yes, I understand this point about the learning curves. Thanks for not
saying my customers are stupid like you said once before. You probably
believe that anyway.
Look, I don't pretend to believe there will be further progress conversing
with you, but I will make this comment anyway.
I believe it is an "opinion" of whether it is a "propagating a bad practice"
to the user. I don't agree with you on that point from the simple nature
that I believe your viewpoint on it is different than mind, and I believe my
view is more open minded that considers what are the "possible solutions"
ideal, realistic or not, and its consideration that deal with across board
issues.
I believe it is clearly an MUA issue. But it's only an MUA issue because of
the middle ware, and the MUA not being about to "react" to the expected
interfaces. We muddle the water between Online vs. Offline. You think to
think it is isn't an issue. I do.
You position is that the integrity of the mail should be maintained endpoint
to endpoint. You are not going to find too many people that would be a
5000% proponent of the importance of keeping with mail integrity. I've be
among the first to fight for mail integrity every day. Our products depends
on this operational assurance, technically and legally.
But when it comes to a LIST or GROUPWARE concept, the question is now who is
the responsible new "owner" of the distribution. It is not the same idea of
a 1 to 1 email conversation where there is laws (both natural in and the
books) governing the tampering of private email and all passthru mail for
that matter.
Again, the MUA comes into play. We muddle the water again with 'what kind of
MUA?" open RFC based MUA with maybe EMAIL, NEWS and IMAP, or other MUAs
with "Exchange" like interfaces which exposes the backend mail conferencing.
Now again, I don't wish to argue with you on because I know you are not the
type to compromise on anything. You don't even recognize my expertise,
questioned my knowledge of the mail system, dismiss my entire 25+ career in
exclusive telecommunications mail/file hosting and distribution products.
This says more about you, not me. I see that and say "Why bother?" the guy
is clearly an moron.
Finally, please don't use the same old mantra that I "don't listen." On
the contrary, I understand your view 100%. I give all the benefit of the
doubt looking all aspects of a suggestion, good and bad, and when bad I look
at "Well, what will make it better or good?" That is how I work in general.
I just don't think in some cases, your input is realistically correct for
dealing with "today's" real world issues There is more new considerations
that need to be dealt with and all I see you doing is just throwing them
away by the waste side. That's the difference here between you and I. That
is my only criticism of you as the #1 show stopper in the IETF when it comes
to new people presenting new ideas. My only advice to you is to be more
open minded. If you see a problem with a suggestion, well, help in maybe
making it better if all possible.
Ciao
Sincerely,
Hector Santos, CTO
Santronics Software, Inc.
http://www.santronics.com
305-431-2846 Cell
305-248-3204 Office