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RE: [Asrg] Email Address Verification Notes (fwd)

2003-04-03 03:49:19
I'm not advocating either #1 or #2 from your list below in either the 
presentation or notes - both are just the basic or summary of some
non-crypto source-authentication approaches but not speciying exact details.

As far as my proposal it'd be a lot more complex and mail tracking with 
dns would be just one component of it (one of about 8 drafts) and I'n not 
advocating use of either envelope "MAIL FROM" or header "From", I'd rather 
actually create new header for authenticated sender and only when this new 
header is absent then heder "From:" can be used. But envelope "MAIL FROM" 
is changeble for in-between mail servers (maillists, forwarders) and hence 
it should be used on per-transaction authentication (where as header "From"
be be used in authentication the source). When I find time to write all these 
drafts, I guess you will see what I mean - right now I'v presented bits 
and pieces and it may seem like there are scope issues, overall I 
think this is eliminated (I guess by introducing more complexity...).

And I (and I'm sure other members of reseach group too) would more then 
welcome differentanalysis approaches. In fact at some point we will need 
to come with list of what and how needs to be analyzed and then have it 
done for each proposal and having different parallel analysis done would 
be quite usefull. So it maybe good idea to write out more specs on how you 
would analyze a proposasl, though having requirement is often necessary in 
order to do it.

William,

Thanks again.  I am reviewing the presentation you presented, and 
although I am  not finished I think I detect a different approach to 
nalyzing proposals (though not fatal, and as I said I am not finished a 
complete review) in your presentation.  For example the analysis of the 
'IP of mail sender' drafts.

From what I understand of the methodology it would not be limited to 
MAIL FROM: (recognize I am talking about the method not protocol 
conformance). The goal is to authenticate the authorization to act as 
an originating MTA for a domain, however I see at least two methods for 
testing the validity of that method.

1) Receiving MTA performs a DNS query on the connecting/originating IP 
for the appropriate resource record to determine authorization for SMTP 
origination for the domain involved (the domain is determined by either 
MAIL FROM: OR From:, 
or;
2) Receiving MTA performs a DNS query on the connecting/originating IP 
for the appropriate resource record to determine authorization for SMTP 
origination for the domain involved (the domain is determined by either 
MAIL FROM: AND From:.

These are fundamentally different in effect though they use the same 
methodology.  In your example you analyzed the approach #1 only.  
Respectfully, my reading (and not yours) does not use the same approach 
for any of the proposals yet I am satisfied that your approach is valid 
and bears out the results you concluded.

Using my approach (step 1) I first strip the proposal, unless it is of a 
protocol implementation, of all of the transport baggage, in this case 
SMTP/ESMTP enveloping failures and RFC822 header forge-ability.  Then 
( step 2) abstract the proposal to it's essence (core functionality), in 
this case 'authentication of authorization as an SMTP originator'.  The 
next step (step 3) analyzes the scope of the proposed solution, in this 
case RR via DNS.

At that step I have determined a hurdle for this proposal, on 
origination SMTP MUAs (as we see them) should always be allowed by a 
local server.  But I don't discern a mechanism to establish that 
relationship, not a fatal flaw, but one that can introduce a loophole 
or worse overhead in the core of the scope (DNS).  If in fact every 
client connection must be verified (Con). I also notice that the 
proposed method does not require a lot of transactions to make the 
fundamental determination e.g. can this IP send messages into the MTS 
(Pro). Conclusion the proposal has scoping issues.

This represents a higher level analysis of the methodology (authentication
of authorization) as opposed to your deeper analysis of each of the 
proposals  vulnerabilities to subversion.  Usually scoping issues such 
as this can be fixed by either simplification or complexity, the 
decision is up to the author I guess.  The current requirement is that 
the proposal be easy to use, but it does not have to be simple.

I think in general that this type of approach may be promising on that basis. 
I would appear that a plausible implementation of this component (which 
is not a full solution I think) would only verify whether the connecting
MTA was authorized as an SMTP originator, and nothing else (simplification). 
Other issues such as DNS vulnerabilities are not pertinent to that 
analysis (though it could be an impact on an implementation that did not 
consider those risks).

I know you did a lot more than a cursory analysis and it is well done,
it just  occurred to me that there are different ways these proposals 
may be analyzed.  Hopefully, an alternative method (for this 'researchy'
group) of evaluation will allow a little more thoughtful scrutiny of 
the proposals moving forward and a little latitude for the author to 
alter the proposals method or premise to derive a better result.

my $.02

-e

On Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:05 PM, william(_at_)elan(_dot_)net 
[SMTP:william(_at_)elan(_dot_)net] 
wrote:
I'm reforwarding my email verification notes. For some reason they do not
appear in the archive for my original post (anybody know why this happens?
https://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/asrg/current/msg01246.html)
The notes were also used in the presentation at:
http://www.elan.net/~william/asrg-emailpathverification-presentation.pdf
To a degree I need this post, so it goes to archive (so I could reference
it in the summary I'm working on).

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 01:59:32 -0800 (PST)
From: william(_at_)elan(_dot_)net
To: ASRG <asrg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Subject: Email Address Verification Notes
8<...snipped to save bandwidth...>8
----
William Leibzon
Elan Communications Inc
william(_at_)elan(_dot_)net

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