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Re: [Asrg] Grouped reply on permissions lists

2003-06-22 22:23:49
At 09:26 PM 6/22/2003 -0600, Vernon Schryver wrote:
>From: Yakov Shafranovich <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
[..]
Do you use an HTML-enabled mailer?  I bet you do, because you would
otherwise not be so cavalier about the games spammers play with HTML.

For the record, I use Eudora which is not HTML friendly and I made sure to have HTML disabled. You can search the archives and you will not find any HTML posts from me.

[..]
> I think that we had plenty of arguments both ways, and both camps are
> staying were they are. I would suggest that either you or someone else,
> write up a BCP or RFC, plus create some working code and get back to the
> group. Not that I am advocating the banning of HTML, but there are plenty
> of people that are and it is important to get stuff past theory into
> practical useable code.

The working code already exists and is wide use.  I think other
people have said that standard SpamAssassin penalized mail in HTML.
It's trivial to write a Procmail recipe that rejects HTML mail or
to modify a recipe that rejects by character sets named in SMTP or
MIME entity headers to reject "text/html".

Reread Gordon's original proposal - he is not simply proposing blocking HTML email - he is proposing creating a tracking system where the receiver can grant permission to the sender to send HTML email ONCE the initial ASCII email got through. This permission code is not a trivial Procmail recipe, and I have not seen a working copy of it yet.

The fact is that people are blocking HTML email currently and will be doing so. Now if Gordon and you, and others, want to preach blocking HTML, then do something about it. That's my point - the discussions have gone long enough, every one expressed their opinions, now its time to do something practical about it. Perhaps even create a central code repository with patches and instructions for major email clients, similar to the efforts of the Web Standards Project (http://www.webstandards.org/) - you can call it the "Email Standards Project" perhaps. Maybe even a compliance program with logos, etc. The possibilities are endless.

If HTML issue is dropped, will you promise to be try as hard to squelch
talk of even more hopeless efforts?

Its a research group - everyone is entitled to their opinions. I do not think blocking HTML is hopeless - I don't think that anyone in the group has argued that blocking HTML does not have SOME benefit - the question is only how big is that benefit is, and whether it outweighs the costs.

 Getting Microsoft to turn on HTML
in Outlook only when the user asks for formatting seems more promising

I don't think that Microsoft is budging anytime soon to do anything that does not correspond with their own interests. Plus, even if they do so, the damage has already been done - the installed user base is very large.

than getting Microsoft to add CR support to Outlook or changing the
terms and conditions for the use of Hotmail to prohibit sending from
any except Hotmail SMTP clients and so make RMX meaningful.

For the record, I had never advocated getting Microsoft to add C/R support for Outlook. C/R systems are coming into wider use, I do not advocate for or against their use, however once they are present I am just trying to make sure that they are inter-operable - that's why I am collaborating with Eric Dean on the CRI protocol. This is a research group - we are looking at everything under the sun and I am glad that all these issues are coming up.

Yakov

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Yakov Shafranovich / <research(_at_)solidmatrix(_dot_)com>
SolidMatrix Research, a division of SolidMatrix Technologies, Inc.
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"One who watches the wind will never sow, and one who keeps his eyes on
the clouds will never reap" (Ecclesiastes 11:4)
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