At 10:39 PM 10/1/2003, Yakov Shafranovich wrote:
Bill Weinman wrote:
At 11:13 PM 9/28/2003, Yakov Shafranovich wrote:
Second, I would like to ask if you can clarify for us whether your
proposal seeks to replace SMTP completely.
Yes, AMTP is intended as a replacement of SMTP. It is also substantially
derivative of SMTP, a design decision intended to ease transition.
First of all Bill, please keep in mind that we are not out to get you here,
<heh> <heh> <heh> Honestly, if I thought you were hostile, I would not
Second, are you aware of other efforts underway to provide a protocol to
replace SMTP. Especially the following:
Yes, I have seen all of those and more. I have been subscribed to the
I-D announcement list for a long time.
Just because others have proposed replacements for SMTP that did not,
will not, may not, or can not work, does not mean that the concept of
replacing SMTP is itself fundamentally flawed.
Any solution that will ultimately work must go through a refinement
process. Most proposals (including my AMTP) start out with many flaws. Then
they either get refined or they die on the vine. Most die early. Many of my
ideas before this one have died. I'm still refining AMTP and I'm pleased
with the progress so far.
I am acutely aware of this issue and AMTP addresses it by maintaining the
overall design and command set of SMTP. AMTP is substantially derivative
of SMTP and as such the transition should be, not entirely trivial, but
as close as possible without sacrificing its operational advantages.
I want you to reconsider this issue again.
I re-consider it every day. I have been considering and re-considering
it for years. I have discussed it with Dave Crocker (just last month). He
happens to disagree with me and I respect that.
It would be very useful to the group in general if we had an analysis of
whether SMTP needs to be replaced in line with Dave's suggestion above.
With all due respect, I have my hands full already. I am not here to be
"useful to the group". Please don't take it personally, but if I were to
set that as a goal I would never get my work done.
I brought the AMTP draft to ASRG to get feedback, and I am getting that
and I appreciate it. Several changes are going into the next draft based on
feedback from this group. I think that's an excellent outcome.
I am aware that the IAB and IETF have a predisposition opposed
replacing SMTP, and frankly I think that's a smart position for them. On
the other hand, I also think it's valuable for people like me should reach
out and try something bold, as I am doing. The IETF cannot do that -- they
have a large and diverse constituency. I don't have that constraint.
The bold steps must, by necessity, be taken by individual mavericks.
Perhaps this one will work. Perhaps it won't. We will only find out if I
Additionally, the IAB will be considering the issue at some point and it
is important to watch what they will come up with.
I will be watching then, as I am now. In the mean time I will continue
Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist.
BTW, I love the quote :)
... cool ... so I guess I need a new one now ...
God is love; Love is blind; Ray Charles is blind; ...
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