Re: [Asrg] What are the IPs that sends mail for a domain?
2009-06-23 01:22:34
Gordon Peterson wrote:
> Except that you cannot reliably determine whether a message is spam.
UCE isn't the only issue. The issue is whether it's something that the
recipient wants to receive, or doesn't want to see.
What if I don't like to see bad news?
> Machines do not understand human language. [...]
I wouldn't "kill" stuff, unless the user has specified rules under which
they are willing to summarily kill it. I think it's generally
worthwhile to file stuff on a local hard drive at the recipient, hard
drive space is cheap, so that they can go back and search for something
that maybe got routed to the spam folder that shouldn't have been.
Are senders required to send an SMS to prompt recipients to go
search for their mail? Why don't we just use SMS transport then? We
can still store it on our hard disks via bluetooth connections...
Deterministically bad or incorrect is not an improvement. The finely
grained rules I am talking about are absolutely deterministic, in any
case... even if they are hard for spammers to determine.
They are not. You may hold they are deterministic since they are the
output of a deterministic machine. However, from users' points of
view, both senders and recipients, based on just the data that each
one sees, the behavior is randomly intermittent.
In facts, spammers and friends are treated alike. Making friend or
foe determinations based on authentication would allow to discern
more consistently.
> IMHO, the correct way to go is to have a (weak) authentication scheme
that works well enough for most relevant cases, and at the same time
keep the existing system as a compatibility option for the cases where
it doesn't work.
> If you want to use prehistoric appliances deploying obsolete mail
transmission methods that have historically proven to be vulnerable to
spammers,
All mail can be vulnerable to spammers. But:
1) you can eliminate the shadows and tricks they use to conceal
themselves;
Not quite. E.g., Bill recently suggested, and I agree, that the
single most effective method is using Spamhaus Zen list. Why would
people use it if they could eliminate shadows and tricks spammers use?
2) you can set up rules to eliminate the great majority of bogus
stuff (and I continue to add rules to my personal copy of Thunderbird on
an ongoing basis);
One could generate all combination of words and then look for those
that make sense. That collection would include most literature
masterpieces. It is not deemed the most effective method for
creating new ones, though. BTW, how would your rules behave at that?
> (and wait until spammers decide to
relate recipients to the From: addresses that they whitelist.)
They have no way to determine what addresses are and are not
whitelisted, and what the rules are for a given recipient.
There are places where they can sniff mail traffic. Infected
machines is one, but I guess there are more, possibly related with
spyware (too many times sending a sporadic mail abroad starts a
sequence of spam apparently unrelated, except for the language; and
I don't believe all of those recipients were infected, as some were
part of tough organizations.) They could easily try and pick your
whitelisted addresses from the recipients you write to, for example.
I think they don't do it because they don't need it, yet.
> Try port 587.
How about if he's sitting at a desktop machine inside the customer's
office? He's not going to be able to reconfigure the mail software he's
sitting in front of.
Webmail
Fine. I am willing to simply decree that (for example) I don't accept
HTML mail, big messages, or attachments from people I don't know. This
doesn't preclude people from contacting me, only preventing them from
abusing me (by whatever my own definition of "abuse" is, and ONLY MY
DEFINITION MATTERS!).
There are legitimate senders who use HTML just because it may look
nicer, and is very difficult to acquaint them with the technical
details that make it bad. Given that, you can delete their messages
without telling, or reject them with an appropriate message. For a
number of reasons, complicated rules are fired after the message has
been accepted, and they may result in deleting or hiding the
message. The more often that happens, the more misunderstandings.
You may call that anything but a reliable system.
I think the place to implement these tools is at the e-mail client
software level, where it is integrated and maps well with the user
interface that the user is familiar to with their e-mail.
Hmm... and the desktop machine inside the customer's office?
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