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Re: [ietf-dkim] over-the-wire (in)compatibility between pre-IETF DKIMand (eventual) IETF DKIM

2005-10-19 10:35:55

On Oct 19, 2005, at 7:21 AM, Barry Leiba wrote:

Douglas Otis wrote:

When the From/Sender headers do not represent the actual sender, such messages may be forfeit had the domain contained within the From/Sender published close-ended authorizations. SSP policies reduce delivery integrity for other senders! : (


I don't agree.  I believe the combination of the ability to specify
which header you're attesting to, combined with the ability to specify
in the SSP whether you sign and whether you authorize third parties
to sign (though I'm not happy with the confusion that the term "third
party" has generated, I don't have a better term in mind), gives the
flexibility we need to solve the problem we're trying to solve --
which, keep in mind, is a limited one.

Signing messages from your domain that adhere to RFC-2822 may be using Resent-Sender, Resent-From, or Sender headers, rather than the From to convey the actual sender. (This also ignores possible exploits using Reply-To and MAILFROM.) For SSP, the choice of third- party authorization is _not_ within within the sending domain's control. There is _nothing_ that can be done to ensure delivery of the valid message without changing the message encapsulation. : (

This breaks email and will cause expensive support issues. SSP expects the entire email infrastructure to change. Path registration would be equally onerous. However, DKIM can enable new friendly modes of recipient protection that can be applied, to a limited extent at the MTA, and a much greater extent at the MUA. There is a much more powerful, yet cheaper and friendlier alternative methods for DKIM to offer general protections without a large loss in the delivery integrity created by RFC-2822 incompatibility.

Allow the MUA or MTA, with the guidance of binding recommendations carried securely within the message itself, to opportunistically associate the email-address with the signing-domain. This type of binding would be an effective means to offer protection at the pretty name _and_ the email address. Nothing has to be visible for there be increased protections offered when using this approach. Much of the spoofing would be prevented in this manner for _any_ prior correspondence and not require any policy assertions whatsoever nor risk a sizable reduction in email's delivery integrity.

This opportunistic approach can be improved by specifying the role of the signer, such as:

 - Originating
 - Resending
 - Verifying

Even Intra-domain spoofing could be detected by adding opaque- identifiers that also combat abusive replays and isolate compromised systems. A signature may be repeated at high frequencies for legitimate reasons. I have been told Yahoo has mailing lists that approach a million subscribers, where a list server could be one such example of a legitimate replay of signed messages.

There could be a practice that nulls signatures for Originating or Resending signatures when the Verifying signature is added. A Verifying signature could not be used to send a message, where the nullification of these other signatures after verification would reduce the opportunity for messages to be used to stage a replay. The opaque-identifier strategy would also highlight the replay sources when an attack is in progress. There could be lists quickly created that indicate domains that do not protect signatures and domains that allow replay attacks. : )



protection and makes the domain highly restricted to two-party use, but still suitable for sensitive transactions.
  - All originating headers match the signing-domain!


I argue that "sensitive transactions" are not what DKIM is about.  If
one wants to protect sensitive transactions, one should use S/MIME or
OpenPGP.

From what I understand, Banks find S/MIME makes their messages appear to be spoofs. S/MIME at this time will not work for a few large ISPs like AOL. DKIM could be installed at the gateway where the ISP's standard techniques could be applied to indicate the level of verification achieved. DKIM does not change the appearance of the message, although at this point, should it really matter. Phishers have become rather proficient copying the look and feel.


That said, I wouldn't object to an additional, strict signing policy
that lists headers and asserts that they must match.  I think it'd be
rather nice to say, "Only consider a message validly signed by us if
the signature verifies AND ALL of the following SMTP and header fields
represent our domain: HELO, MAIL-FROM, From, Sender, Reply-To [...]."

What do others think of this?

I see this would be beneficial in a few cases. I also don't see the logic for limiting policy assertions to "Only we are allowed to use the From header unless this has multiple addresses, in which case only we can use the Sender header" policy statement. The havoc from such a policy restriction would have already been created. Any domain that makes this policy statement would then be radio-active with respect to delivery integrity for multiple party communications, and thus should be used in exigent cases that are limited to two- party communications.

-Doug



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