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Re: In response to Housley-mass-sec-review

2005-03-08 09:06:16

Andrew Newton wrote:



On Mar 8, 2005, at 12:56 AM, Jim Fenton wrote:

This depends on all authoritative DNS servers being tightly coupled to the revocation infrastructure, and I'm not sure how practical that is for everyone. Some mail domains probably don't run their own name servers; they may do this through their registrar. And every "hammering" is one that got away (notwithstanding your next comment):


Arguments about the administrative proximity of DNS and email have been made ever since the idea of DNS-based sender authentication started. If an organization has this little control over their own zones, then DK/IIM have more basic problems, as in how will they get the key in the zone in the first place much less manage key roll-over. In fact, this will be an issue from some domain holders but we will probably never know just how slight or serious this problem really is.

This goes beyond control of the name servers; this would require a feedback loop based on name server activity, which is a new requirement. Perhaps revocation identifiers would only be used by domains that are capable of monitoring the activity on their authoritative name servers.


If this is the case, how long must the revocation records be retained? It must be much longer than has been discussed for keys (a week or so to allow delivery of queued messages).


I don't understand this. Why would it be any longer than the signing key?

Suppose my verifying MTA accepted a replayed message before the revocation got published, but I was on vacation for a month before reading it. The MTA would verify the signature and mark the message with a header to indicate that, so the signing key doesn't need to be retained that long. But the revocation indicator, since it would be checked when I read the message, would need to be available until then.


I'm not saying revocation indicators are bad -- I'm still trying to decide what I think. But I'm concerned they're being oversold a bit.


Something that actually prevented the replay attack would be best, but we don't seem to have one. My own opinion is that revocation IDs are good enough. Of course, we could turn Doug's idea on its head and do validation IDs requiring the presence of A records for all valid messages, but I would guess this would really be an administrative challenge.

If we're going to depend on the lack of a record [BTW, why an A record?] to indicate that a revocation ID isn't active, then we probably need to put these records in their own zone. A small and unscientific survey of some domains indicated minimum TTLs on the SOA of from 600 to 7200 seconds, and we want negative caching to persist for a much shorter time.

-Jim


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