I think that considering that the time to deploy a new mail system will take
longer than deploying IPv6 ... it make sense to deploy both together, I mean a
new mail system WITH IPv6, possible using IPsec. I think it will be even faster
than if we try to do now the deployment of IPv6, and tomorrow the deployment of
the "new" email system ...
It could be also a nice value added for IPv6, that could help on the deployment.
I had this idea in my mind since a long time ago ... we just need to sit down
and make out of it a nice architecture !
Regards,
Jordi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Robinson" <paul(_at_)iconoplex(_dot_)co(_dot_)uk>
To: "Dave Crocker" <dcrocker(_at_)brandenburg(_dot_)com>; "Dave Crocker"
<dhc2(_at_)dcrocker(_dot_)net>
Cc: "Paul Vixie" <paul(_at_)vix(_dot_)com>; <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Principles of Spam-abatement
Quoting Dave Crocker <dhc2(_at_)dcrocker(_dot_)net>:
_New_ services get created in all sorts of ways and for all sorts of
reason. However changing an existing, popular service is subject to
very different concerns than a new service. In particular, it is
subject to careful attention to preservation of the installed base.
I think the point Paul Vixie was making was that saying we would discuss the
new
protocol at all was not likely to happen. Already there is a mailing list over
at IMC for "mail-ng" where a lot of good ideas are being throw around. I
expect
somebody is going to sit down and start writing code one day, and release it.
It will work over the existing infrastructure (e.g. use MXes from DNS records,
etc.) and address many of the concerns people have. If it does it well, it
will
propogate and be used by more and more sites. There will be hook-ins for old
SMTP (in the same way that there were hook-ins for UUCP when SMTP came along),
and it will begin to propogate.
I very much doubt that the IETF will be in charge of any aspect of it.
What is important, is that we ensure that commercial interests that
effectively
hands control of the mail infrastructure to a body with a commercial objective
does not happen. Ignoring such schemes (a la Microsoft and Yahoo!) will not
work - it will just make the IETF irrelevant.
Like it or not, it's time for all of us to get very serious, very quickly
about
a replacement for SMTP. There is a clear need, the user requirements are
starting to firm up, and it's make or break time.
Facile assumptions that we will blithely move an installed base of 500
million people, to a new set of protocols, reminds me of a cliche
We will not move anybody. We will provide a specification, programmers will
produce the code, ISPs and Software vendors will do the moving if their
customers request it.
Switching 1/2 billion people requires quite a lot of force and time,
and so do the hundreds of thousands of implementors and operators who
have to make it happen. They need clear and compelling incentives for
the considerable energy it will take and discomfort it will cause.
Is it just me, or is this just the IPv6 conversation again, but with "Mail"
replacing "IP"?
So far, claims that smtp needs to be replaced, to fix spam problems,
fail to provide anything more compelling than some strong emotions.
The IMC list is producing some good ideas. I was due to collate them all into
one big document, but time has got the better of me, as has the several
hundred
(maybe, thousand?) messages I need to go through to get all the ideas
captured.
Let's remember that no action to date has reduced the global level of
spam. So folks need to be a tad circumspect when calling for massive
infrastructure change for which there is no basis to guarantee
results.
Statistics have a reputation you know. It's impossible to put an accurate
figure
on the amount of spam sent at a global level. Even if you could, that's not
the
same figure as the amount that ends up in user's inboxes (some gets 550'ed,
some gets marked for deletion and filtered). We don't know the precise
figures,
we can only guess. And we know that as a percentage, the signal-to-noise ratio
is pretty poor, from personal experience.
However, in my inbox, I get less spam confronting me on a daily basis than I
did
6 months ago. My spam folder has grown considerably, but my inbox is
relatively
clean. The problem is, the techniques I've used to make that so are beyond
most
users, and it would seem, most ISPs.
--
Paul Robinson
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