|
Re: Ietf Digest, Vol 21, Issue 63
2006-01-21 17:23:13
There are some of the early Internet Monthly reports online at
http://ftp.us.xemacs.org/ftp/pub/internet-monthly-reports/ (incomplete
before mid-1986)
The April 1986 edition (imr8604.txt) has the following...
INTERNET ARCHITECTURE .Grab=5;
.IOvr=3;1. A third draft of a document on gateway requirements was
circulated for advice and comment in INENG, INARC and the Workshop
on IS-IS Routing held at NBS. Strictly speaking, this is an NSF
document and is being reviewed both as a service to NBS and as
possible guidance for the DoD community.
2. An agenda and marching orders are in place for the first
meeting of INARC to be held at BBN on 8-9 May. Dave Clark has
agreed to attend, as well as Lyman Chapin, who chairs the ANSI
committee charged with routing issues. Marianne Gardner and
possibly others from BBN will summarize their work on advanced
routing issues.
3. Discussion continues over a proposed RFC on ISO addressing
co-authored by Hans-Werner Braun and Ross Callon. This is a legacy
of the now defunct GADS, but may serve as an opening wedge for
more general Dod-ISO convergence issues. .IOvr=0;
Dave Mills
INTERNET ENGINEERING .Grab=5;
.IOvr=3;1) The initial meeting of this Task Force convened during
an open afternoon of the final GADS on January 16, 1986. A
tentative Task Force agenda of short, mid and long term goals was
set.
2) The first full meeting was held on April 8-9, 1986 where the
agenda focused on: .IOvr=0;
- Recent Internet performance degradation
- EGP Modifications
- IP refinements in hosts and gateways for improved routing and
congestion control
3) A summary of recent Internet performance was given: .Grab=8;
Dec 85 Jan 85
Traffic Sent by Mail Bridges ~27 ~35 (Mpackets/week)
Traffic Sent by Mail Bridges ~90 ~105 (Mpackets/week)
Traffic Dropped by Mail Bridges ~3% ~6%
Traffic Dropped by Mail Bridges ~2% ~4%
.IOvr=3;4) BBN discussed two possible sources for these sharp
changes: 1) a bug in the LSI gateway routing software, which was
recently discovered and corrected and 2) resource shortage in the
Mail Bridge PSNs, due to be alleviated by end of April).
6) EGP modifications of two types were discussed: 1) areas in
which the specification needed to be tightened and 2) areas in
which the specification can profitable be `re-interpreted'.
Examples of the second type include fragmented updates and
interpreting the metric (eg, RFC975 - Autonomous Confederations).
7) Several new ICMP messages were proposed to facilitate fault
isolation and routing (eg, initial gateway discovery, discovery of
preferred address for multi-homed hosts). A co-operative
congestion control scheme was proposed. Discussion of this scheme
will continue in the Internet Architecture Task Force. .IOvr=0;
8) Actions in progress:
- continued tracking of Internet traffic for expected
improvements,
- produce RFC of EGP modifications,
- produce RFC specifying host attachment and IP/ICMP
modifications.
.IOvr=3;9) Detailed meeting notes are available upon request to
corrigan(_at_)DDN1(_dot_)ARPA, with cc to
gross(_at_)MITRE(_dot_)ARPA(_dot_) Those requesting
the notes will be added to the Task Force interest list. .IOvr=0;
Phill Gross
I haven't been able to find a complete set of these reports from
BTW, I came across this mail message from the ancient history of the tcp_ip mailing list (archived at UCL http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/misc/)
I liked the last paragraph...
Received: from braden.isi.edu by SRI-NIC.ARPA with TCP; Fri 31 Oct 86
10:07:11-PST
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 86 10:04:19 PST
From: Bob Braden <braden(_at_)isi(_dot_)edu>
Posted-Date: Fri, 31 Oct 86 10:04:19 PST
Message-Id: <8610311804(_dot_)AA00167(_at_)braden(_dot_)isi(_dot_)edu>
Received: by braden.isi.edu (5.54/5.51)
id AA00167; Fri, 31 Oct 86 10:04:19 PST
To: rick(_at_)seismo(_dot_)css(_dot_)gov
Subject: Re: Poor performance related to egp?
Cc: braden(_at_)isi(_dot_)edu, egp-people(_at_)ccv(_dot_)bbn(_dot_)com,
tcp-ip(_at_)sri-nic(_dot_)arpa
The examples you cite of "horrible" EGP routing are probably due to the
extra-hop problem in the core. Apparently we have not done an adequate
job of information-spreading, if you are not aware of this problem. I
seem to recall a blaze of messages on this very subject within the past 6
months, probably on the tcp-ip list. It began with a complaint almost
identical to yours, and ended with a scholarly explanation of the
extra-hop problem by Dave Mills.
The extra-hop problem can at worst double the core traffic, and it is
scheduled to go away when the Butterflies take over the core. I forget
the exact predicted date from BBN, but rescue is in sight.
As for performance, in some funny sense EGP is (deliberately) designed for
poor performance, in the sense that it is intended to server as a firewall
against misbehaviour by routing domains outside the core. It is true, as
Mike StJohns says, that EGP is not a routing protocol; it is also true that
this fact has led to serious restrictions in topology and therefore a
crash effort is being mounted to replace EGP with a routing protocol, under
the direction of the INENG and INARCH task forces.
However, maybe we are asking too much of EGP. Perhaps we are trying to
make it a technical fix for administrative problems. To avoid bad things
like oscillations and routing loops in the face of the "diversity" (to
use a nice word) of the Internet as a whole, EGP or whatever replaces it
will always have to use long time constants and provide some sub-optimal
routes. At the present time, the Internet is growing largely by
accretion of new Autonomous Systems, and this must lead to some
degradation as you cross boundaries. If we want better overall
performance, we need to persuade these systems to aggregate into bigger
systems, each run by centralized and professional Internet management,
and each using a carefully-optimized IGP.
I go into all this polemic, because lately I have been exposed to an
awful lot of technological optimism (ask NASA about that!) about
Internetting. I wish we could convince some of the new players in the
Internet game that it takes great technical sophistication and wisdom
to make this stuff work well. The Anarchy Model of Internetting,
while theoretically feasible due to EGP, is not really a very wise way
to go.
Bob Braden
=========================
regards,
Elwyn Davies
Marshall Eubanks wrote:
While we are on the subject, in the archives of the IETF there are
proceedings of one Internet Architecture Task Force meeting, in May,
1986.
Can anyone fill me in on this entity and what happened to it ?
Regards
Marshall Eubanks
On Jan 16, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Patrice Lyons wrote:
Bob,
They are talking about the first IETF meeting as taking place on
Jan. 16, 1986. What about the IETF meeting as one of the several
task forces that Barry Leiner put together while you were still at
DARPA? There was also the working group series that preceded the
IETF. I recall that Jon Postel had kept the records of this work on
the early Internet. Also, do you plan to go to Dallas? The last
message to Harold mentions some agreement reached at Tunis with
respect to IETF work with the to be formed Internet Governance Forum
(at least I think that is what it is going to be called) (see early
work on it at http://www.intgovforum.org/.
Patrice
----- Original Message ----- From: <ietf-request(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
To: <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Ietf Digest, Vol 21, Issue 63
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:14:48 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brc(_at_)zurich(_dot_)ibm(_dot_)com>
Subject: An important day for the IETF
To: IETF discussion list <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Message-ID: <43CB7218(_dot_)1020008(_at_)zurich(_dot_)ibm(_dot_)com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Greetings,
The first IETF meeting took place 20 years ago today,
on January 16th, 1986, in San Diego, California. There were
21 attendees and Mike Corrigan was in the chair.
The IETF has come a long way since then. We'll celebrate
this in fine style during the 65th IETF meeting in
Dallas, Texas from March 19 to 24, 2006.
Brian Carpenter
IETF Chair No. 6
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 12:30:13 +0100
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald(_at_)alvestrand(_dot_)no>
Subject: Re: An important day for the IETF
To: Brian E Carpenter <brc(_at_)zurich(_dot_)ibm(_dot_)com>, IETF discussion
list
<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Message-ID: <BE8FDBE7B6DE849010EB906F(_at_)B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Happy birthday, IETF!
And remember to raise an extra toast to Mike St. Johns, who should be
coming to his 63rd or so IETF meeting in Dallas..... for some of
us, this
has gotten to be a habit!
Wonder how many of the original 21 are still around????
Harald, attendee since #22 (but missed #29)
--On 16. januar 2006 11:14 +0100 Brian E Carpenter
<brc(_at_)zurich(_dot_)ibm(_dot_)com>
wrote:
Greetings,
The first IETF meeting took place 20 years ago today,
on January 16th, 1986, in San Diego, California. There were
21 attendees and Mike Corrigan was in the chair.
The IETF has come a long way since then. We'll celebrate
this in fine style during the 65th IETF meeting in
Dallas, Texas from March 19 to 24, 2006.
Brian Carpenter
IETF Chair No. 6
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:00:12 +0100
From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald(_at_)alvestrand(_dot_)no>
Subject: Re: An important day for the IETF
To: Noel Chiappa <jnc(_at_)mercury(_dot_)lcs(_dot_)mit(_dot_)edu>,
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Message-ID:
<64C91C00D46DC52AA27AF3EB(_at_)svartdal(_dot_)hjemme(_dot_)alvestrand(_dot_)no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
--On mandag, januar 16, 2006 09:39:36 -0500 Noel Chiappa
<jnc(_at_)mercury(_dot_)lcs(_dot_)mit(_dot_)edu> wrote:
> From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald(_at_)alvestrand(_dot_)no>
> Wonder how many of the original 21 are still around????
You rang? :-)
That's one :-)
The minutes of the first meeting are now online (scanned PDF)(!),
and there
the attendees are listed as:
Braun, Hans-Werner
Bresica, Mike
Callon, Ross
Chiappa, Noel
Eldridge, Charles
Gross, Phill
Hinden, Robert
Mathis, James
Mills, David
Nagle, John
Natalie, Ronald
Rokitansky, Carl
Shacham, Nachum
Su, Zaw-Sing
Topolcic, Claudio
Zhang, Lixia
Clark, David
Corrigan, Mike
Deering, Steve
Means, Robert
St. Johns, Mike
The only email address that *might* still work is Hans-Werner
Braun's....
none of the others have FQDNs.....
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:30:13 +0100
From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey(_at_)jefsey(_dot_)com>
Subject: Re: An important day for the IETF
To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <harald(_at_)alvestrand(_dot_)no>, Brian E Carpenter
<brc(_at_)zurich(_dot_)ibm(_dot_)com>, IETF discussion list
<ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Message-ID:
<6(_dot_)2(_dot_)3(_dot_)4(_dot_)2(_dot_)20060116151422(_dot_)0395e2b0(_at_)mail(_dot_)jefsey(_dot_)com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:30 16/01/2006, Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
Happy birthday, IETF!
Dear Harald,
you are right, happy birthday! An impressive continuity we should
strive to protect. In avoiding the status quo that some stakeholders
may favor, and areas outside of network engineering (such as
linguistic and country political definition :-)).
Wonder how many of the original 21 are still around????
Harald, attendee since #22 (but missed #29)
Impressive. My own agenda that sad fortnight might help better
understand the past, present and future of the network.
- on 12-15 January 1986 I attended the eight Telecommunications
Council Eighth Annual Conference at he Hawaiian Regent Hotel in
Honolulu. The theme was "Evolution of the Digital Pacific". Audience
was probably 200 to 300 people. I had a lunch there with two lady
training consultant for the US Army TV network, to discuss how to
support their program on packet switch network, with Compression
Lab tools.
- on the 16 I had a diner at the Bonaventure (LA) with Father Bourret
(http://www.kuangchi.com/english/history.htm). On the agenda: packet
switching in TW and a Vatican State International Packet Switch
Gateway
- then I brought international data services experience in meetings
with an LA based Bank and for a complete turn-key online banking
service to a group NY banks. Multi-currency accounts, ATM
connections. I explained our experience with air-line reservation
services for most of the major airlines, hotels chains and
rent-a-cars, and how it worked at regular Travel Agents using a
service you would call a smart OPES today.
- met with Mobil Oil international communications manager (NY) and
routine meetings with the International Carriers. I was in Washington
on the 28th.
We used to refer to ARPANET as the "grand father" :-). Minitel users
were probably already 3 millions in France, plus Prestel in UK, plus
Germany, etc.. Over these 20 years since these Tymnet times, OSI,
then the Internet made us to step from 7+ to 70+ to 700+ millions of
active users worldwide.
But you may understand why I feel the architectural evolution is
sometimes dismaying and why constraints and rigidity cannot bring
innovation and expansion. We need now another technology leap frog
towards the 7+ billions users.
Only a multilingual, multinational, multilateral, multitechnology,
multiservice continuity architecture can deliver now.
Good luck to everyone for the next decade which will be decisive.
I do hope you will permit it to be in cooperation with the IGF,. That
we can proceed fast on a stable, reasonable and acceptable equal
opportunity but competitive fair basis. As we all agreed in Tunis.
jfc
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
|
|