"Scott" == Scott O Bradner <sob(_at_)harvard(_dot_)edu> writes:
Scott> to follow up on Dave's note
>> * The IETF as a whole does not have consensus on the technical
>> approach or document. There are cases where individual working
>> groups or areas have forged rough consensus around a technical
>> approach which does not garner IETF consensus. An AD may
>> DISCUSS a document where she or he believes this to be the
>> case. While the Area Director should describe the technical
>> area where consensus is flawed, the focus of the DISCUSS and
>> its resolution should be on how to forge a cross-IETF
>> consensus.
Scott> what actual evidence must an AD present to indicate that
Scott> the assertion of non-consensus is anywhere but in the one
Scott> AD's mind?
None. But the AD must be willing to propose a procedure that the rest
of the IESG can go along with to determine whether there is in fact a
lack of consensus or wether the AD is wrong. This style of discuss is
much more of a "Hold on here, let's work together to check consensus,"
than a "I'm blocking this document for ever."
David used this style of discuss recently to show us that we did not
have consensus behind Brian's mailing list document. He presented
very little evidence (I think none but don't want to go back and look
at the record) but it was easy for me as shepherd to work with David
to agree on a procedure for checking consensus. David was right in
that instance.
I came very close to filing a similar discuss with
draft-ietf-grow-anycastbut ended up filing a strong abstain instead.
If there are people on the IESG who you don't trust with the ability
to say "Hey, I think we have a problem here. Let's take the time to
find out," then please work to remove them. That is true even if I'me
one of the people you believe needs to go. Asking the IESG to do its
job without giving the members this power is giving responsibility
without the necessary power. I'm not interested in that job, I doubt
others are either.
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