My point is that in the case that you have a minority defending a status quo
there is only one side that needs to progress. So a minority can feel that it
has no need to compromise because it has a veto.
So consensus in that case turns out to be the tyranny of an obstructionist
minority.
If you have a chair who is doing their job properly and honestly this need not
be a problem. The process pretty much fails if the chair is part of the
obstructionist minority.
On the ideology point, I tend to think of ideology as being when someone
refuses to examine the situation or engage in an argument because they already
know the answer and there is absolutely no possibility that they are wrong.
A consensus approach only works if either there are no ideological factions or
everyone shares the same ideology.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hartman [mailto:hartmans-ietf(_at_)mit(_dot_)edu]
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:08 AM
To: Hallam-Baker, Phillip
Cc: Scott O. Bradner; ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
Subject: Re: "Discuss" criteria
"Hallam-Baker," == Hallam-Baker, Phillip
<pbaker(_at_)verisign(_dot_)com> writes:
Hallam-Baker,> There is another problem to do with consensus and
Hallam-Baker,> the status quo. Say we have a situation where a
Hallam-Baker,> clear majority of a working group believes that a
Hallam-Baker,> spec is unworkable unless a particular change is
Hallam-Baker,> made. A small minority opposes the change for
Hallam-Baker,> ideological reasons.
Hallam-Baker,> Should the outcome in this case be:
Hallam-Baker,> 1) Neither proposal can advance until there is
Hallam-Baker,> consensus
Steve answered part of this.
If the minority is large enough--and I think that reasonably
small is large enough--then I think 1) is the right outcome.
Often you can get consensus on a way to break the deadlock
even if you can't get consensus on the issue directly.
There are a lot of things you as a chair can do to try and
break these deadlocks. Ultimately, though, if you can't get
consensus you can't get consensus.
I realize we disagree on this point, but ideology is a fine
reason in my mind to fail to have consensus.
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