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RE: Symptoms vs. Causes

2007-09-13 08:14:49

So much for typing. How about selecting password letters 
from dropdown 
boxes, or from an image map with scrambled letters that was sent to 
the browser.

Sorry, what about these? They have essentially the same 
security properties as cleartext passwords.

One would hope that all communication from the browser to the server is 
encrypted as in SSL regardless of whether passwords go in cleartext or whether 
there is some Javascript to encrypt them first. In that case, the big issue is 
keylogging software that has been widely installed by malware distributed by 
Phishing organizations. Key-stroke loggers do not look at mouse-clicks.

Second, it doesn't take that many phishing attacks to extract 
most of the secret word.

Depends on length of said word/phrase. Also, I can see how naïve people are 
fooled by the first email, but surely the percentage who would click on each 
successive email, decreases.

At the end of the day, phishing is a social problem, not a technical problem. 
It can't be solved by purely technical means. All technical solutions to 
phishing involve some form of behavior change.

You've mentioned man-in-the-middle attacks. Such attacks cannot be prevented if 
the user interface requires cleartext inputs. Remember, this is not like 
typical cryptography MITM attacks where the MITM receives an ecrypted stream 
and is able to decrypt it, modify it, and reencrypt it. In this case, the user 
asks the MITM to provide a web page and associated Javascript. While the look 
of this page will be identical to the bank's page, the functionality does not 
need to be identical. It can send everything cleartext to the MITM who them 
emulates the human user.

To defeat MITM you need a secure channel, but how can you establish a secure 
channel to a human being who has already defeated the bank's security system by 
enlisting the phishing organization as their agent?

I would rather see the focus of effort go to building simple embedded computer 
systems that one can plug into a USB port and rely on to establish an encrypted 
channel to the bank. That way, the human user does not play any significant 
role in establishing the channel of communication and cannot subvert the 
process.

--Michael Dillon

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