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Re: fyi: Paper: "State of the Internet & Challenges ahead "

2008-03-20 18:32:34

On 2008-03-21 10:32, Theodore Tso wrote:
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 09:45:53AM +1300, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
Well, try reading it before you rush to judgement. I've always
found Olivier's opinions well worth listening too.

I tried reading it, 


but it is much more descriptive than perscriptive,

True. I don't see it as a defect.

and in many places I didn't find a rationale to back up his opinions.

Well, I think he's relying on a lot of common knowledge among
operational folk.

He also borrows a lot of material from many places, and while the web
pages are clearly marked in footnotes, in some cases it appears that
he does so without bringing in the context.  

For example, he has a diagram, "Areas of Internet Governance" which
includes in one of six clouds, "Illegal Activity: fraud, theft, child
pornography, gambling, trafficking, stalking, etc.".  Now, I don't
normally associate that (alongside Regulation, Legal Activity,
Standards, Operations, and Applications) as "areas of Internet
Governance" and he doesn't explain the meaning or the point he was
trying to make with that document.

Firstly, it's still work in progress, so I'm sure he'd be glad of
your comments. Secondly, in the Internet governance meetings I have
reluctantly attended, illegal activity was a major topic. I'd agree
with you, btw, but the diagram reflects the meetings...

As a result, I tried very hard to see what point he was trying to make
(and I reread the document based on your recommendations of his
opinions), but it was very hard not to dismiss him as a crank.
Perhaps a crank that had clearly mastered the game of buzzword bingo,
and with a clear bias towards circuit-switched networks with bandwidth
reservation as being far better than what the Internet currently uses,

Way wrong. You're talking about the guy who installed the European
end of the first T1 IP link across the Atlantic and built one of the
first IXPs in Europe, to cite but two of his contributions to building
the Internet. Now, he also worked for a community that discovered that
the only way to meet its needs was to insert 10 Gb/s intercontinental
links to bypass the slow old Internet, but I assure you they run
IP packets.

which he calls "ossifying" 

Well, for example, we haven't changed the inter-ISP routing paradigm
for the last 15 years and we haven't deployed the enlarged address
space that was defined 13 years ago...

and "degenerate"

but we have broken addressing transparency

, but I didn't see any
suggestions for how to make things better, even according to his
valuation criteria of what is good or degenerate.....

True. Let's get on with that, since it's the IETF's job.

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