Yes, it very nicely captures the spirit of the BoF's charter discussion to date.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: codec-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org <codec-bounces(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
To: Russ Housley <housley(_at_)vigilsec(_dot_)com>
Cc: codec(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org <codec(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>;
ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org <ietf(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>; iesg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org
<iesg(_at_)ietf(_dot_)org>
Sent: Fri Jan 08 21:43:49 2010
Subject: Re: [codec] WG Review: Internet Wideband Audio Codec (codec)
I like that.
On 2010-01-08 18:14, Russ Housley wrote:
Good improvement. I'd go a slide bit further:
Although this preference cannot guarantee that the working
group will produce an unencumbered codec, the working group shall
follow BCP 79, and adhere to the spirit of BCP 79. The working
group cannot explicitly rule out the possibility of adapting
encumbered technologies; however, the working group will try to
avoid encumbered technologies that would hinder free
redistribution in any way.
Russ
On 1/7/2010 3:13 PM, Jean-Marc Valin wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure royalties are the *least* of out problems, but I certainly
agree with Stephan that annoyances go further than just royalties. I
understand that BCP79 restricts what we can say about that in the
charter,
but at least mentioning the problem as Stephan suggests is a good idea
IMO.
In some sense, this is again part of the "making it easy to
redistribute".
Jean-Marc
Stephan Wenger wrote:
Hi,
Russ' language is an improvement. But let's not forget that there are
encumbrances that have nothing to do with paying royalties, but are
equally
problematic from an adoption viewpoint. Examples:
1. Co-marketing requirement: need to put a logo of the rightholder
company
on one's products acknowledging using the protected technology.
2. Unreasonable (from the viewpoint of the adopter) reciprocity
requirements: one of many examples would be "if you use this
technology, you
agree not to assert, against me or my customers, any of your patents.
Otherwise your license terminates.".
3. Requirement for a "postcard license". Such a requirement may rule out
open source implementations under certain open source licenses.
I believe strongly that a charter that discusses IPR issues should
mention
at least those three aspects, and/or provide sufficiently vague
language to
allow for an appropriate reaction to those and other encumbrances
that may
show up.
Royalties are the least of our problems.
Regards,
Stephan
Disclaimer: I have clients that would have problems with all three
encumbrances mentioned above.
On 1/7/10 11:08 AM, "Peter Saint-Andre"<stpeter(_at_)stpeter(_dot_)im>
wrote:
On 1/7/10 9:46 AM, Russ Housley wrote:
Andy:
Although this preference cannot guarantee that the working
group will produce an unencumbered codec, the working group shall
attempt to adhere to the spirit of BCP 79. This preference does not
explicitly rule out the possibility of adapting encumbered
technologies;
such decisions will be made in accordance with the rough
consensus of
the working group.
I appreciate the potential difficulty of guaranteeing the
unencumbered
status of any output of this group. However, I would like this
statement to
be stronger, saying that this group will only produce a new codec if
it is
strongly believed by WG rough consensus to either be unencumbered,
or freely licensed by the IPR holder(s), if any.
I do not think that anyone wants the outcome to be yet another
encumbered codec. I think these words are trying to say what you want,
but they are also trying to be realistic.
Does the following text strike a better balance?
Although this preference cannot guarantee that the working
group will produce an unencumbered codec, the working group shall
follow BCP 79, and adhere to the spirit of BCP 79. The working
group cannot explicitly rule out the possibility of adapting
encumbered technologies; however, the working group will try to
avoid encumbered technologies that require royalties.
That seems reasonable. Although I was only the BoF co-chair, I'll
volunteer to hold the pen on edits to the proposed charter.
Peter
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